NERD supports Voids and plays with them

Hmmm I guess its the trend now to Void your snake then free handle it for photos and not explain yourself. I guess can say NERD was following what Pete did ehh? j/k

Originally Posted by Jim O

OK Brian. But explain why that is OK. I personally do not think so. Sadly, those people can be doing almost as much harm as if not more than someone handling voids in public. The reasons are that first, someone might photograph them and post it in order to embarrass them (been known to happen) and more importantly they might get bitten and receive a significant envenomation resulting in all kinds of public health attention and perhaps newspaper articles. I can see the opening line -- MAN BIT BY DEADLY PET COBRA or worse -- MAN DIES FROM BITE OF PET COBRA. No one is even going to know that it was his own fault. They're only going to worry that the snake could have gotten loose and bitten them. That's all some nitwit politician needs to help spearhead laws that restrict all of us that feel we are "responsible" from keeping animals that we can safely keep. And I don't mean only hots as you probably understand. All you need to do is look at the proposed legislation in North Carolina to know that this stuff is coming and can affect us all. For those unaware, they want to restrict ownership of ANY snake with the POTENTIAL to get greater than 8 feet. So that would include all common Boas, as they have that potential, scrub pythons, most carpet pythons, even Black-headed pythons as some are (rarely) known to get past 8 feet. So anyone who free hands their hots is risking this for the rest of us. And that is where their "right to privacy" ends in my opinion. And you should speak up against them as I have here, and you should stop the practice yourself.

Jim where did I say I thought it was ok? Please quote that part as I missed it somewhere. I did not once say I agreed to the practice did I? No... I just stated it was in the privacy of their own home, and that isn't an agreement is it? It is just the fact that they don't put anyone else kids included in danger as NERD so boldly did. And yes you did make a great point about the snake bite and the way the media goes nuts with stories like that (main reason if I ever saw a reporter on fire I would beat out the flames with a baseball bat) and that does indeed look bad for the hobby. But lets face fact when you keep venomous bites can and do happen even if you take every precaution by using hooks or tongs. You know as well as I do transfer boxes don't work with snakes who will not enter them. No matter how careful you are just that one little slip up and bamo you just got a nice dose of venom. It has happened to the best of us. Look at Florida and their permit system. They investigate every bite and if the owner was found at fault they lose that permit. Even they know mistakes happen and that is why the investigation process is like it is in that state. If they ever caught someone like NERD doing what they did I am sure they would pull the permits and bring criminal charges of public endangerment, because lets all face facts here this is what that is pure and simple. And if you come back that the snakes were venomoids the law has no such classification for them so they are all venomous in the laws eyes. Hell what do you get when you breed two venomoid atrox? Venomous atrox.

Originally Posted by Jim O

I gave up keeping hots due to demands of career and then having young children in my house. The only hot reptile that I keep currently is a Gila Monster, but I would like the opportunity in the future, and I'll be just as damned not to speak up about it if it's some asswipe free handing in the privacy of his home or in public.

Jim a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are. It is their choice and I tried like all hell to change their minds but it was in one ear and out the other. Just like you made your choice they made theirs. It by no means makes it right either. Do I freehand I feel will be the next question. No is the answer. Have I may ome up also. Yes once and trust me I will not do that again. Honestly my collection is a little too dangerous to even think about reaching in and grabbing one. You touch a Bothrops asper and they go nuts and will attack you. The Daboia's are a bit more calm but still pretty quick for their size and they pack a very nasty venom. And if I slip up with one of the trigons there is no known antivenom so it would be a waiting game of what it would do. And lastly yes I have the proper permits for my state, and I don't show them unless they are in their happy locked enclosures. the kids in the neighborhood think they are neat and want to touch them, but after talking to them about the dangers they pose and how they should never pick up any snake they might think is venomous they get the picture. That is trying to properly educate and inform what may be the next generation of hobbiests. Not what NERD did. That is pure showboat and shock and awe.

Originally Posted by bcfos

They do it in the privacy of their own hom Jim not out in public...If they did so in public the soapbox would be out in a second flat

Many agreed with Karen's "You condone it by not condemning it." Why no outrage Brian? I'm not trying to pimp you but don't you think you, as a hot keeper, should be held to the same "low" standards as this "bottom dweller"?

Originally Posted by bcfos

Jim a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are.

Then why all the NERD bashing?

Read the post above yours Jim maybe you just missed it.

And why all the NERD bashing? Are you defending them for what they did?

Originally Posted by NERD,Inc

Yes, there are venomoids here. Are we going out & actively purchasing them & spending money on folks to make them? No. Some were bought several years ago from a single individual who is no longer in the reptile business. More recently, others were acquired from NH State F&G confiscations - they bring us confiscated reptiles that would otherwise be euthanized, and some have just been surrendered directly to our facility, along with venomous animals that are also here. Those particular animals are all under lock & key since we have limited background info on them.

So NH Fish and Game will back these facts up when questioned about them?

Originally Posted by NERD,Inc

The context of those photos was from a reptile show @ our store last weekend, at which we displayed a variety of animals - giant pythons, croc & water monitors, tortoises, etc - and brought out some of the venomoids for pictures later that day. No one is saying "here go get a cobra for a pet." What is being said is that snakes are not horrible, terrible, out-to-hurt you animals that should be killed w/o consideration, because we get several "hey I killed a snake in my yard" calls every week. Could this have been done in a better manner? Sure - I won't disagree with that. Not everyone sees eye-to-eye on everything that happens here, both externally & internally.

Just my $.02

Kara

And seeing as you don't agree with how the show was presented and the animals also will there be any changes in future educational shows NERD hosts. If so what might they be.

Brian,

I missed nothing. You won't get on your soapbox for what people do in their house. Why not? You say "a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are". So how does it do good telling NERD? You have a double standard here. And deflecting from that fact by asking if I am defending them is as transparent as it gets. Follow your own advice and you will see that "maybe you just missed it".

I just went through why I think morons who free hand at home are asswipes, the ones who you won't get up on your soap box for because "a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are". How in creation can you come to even the remotest idea that I support doing it in public.

All that I am asking for is some consistency. If people won't learn, why keep beating this dead horse? If that goes for your "friends" who free hand then why not for your sworn enemy? Seems like a double standard to me.

This is just getting pathetically funny.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Brian,

I missed nothing. You won't get on your soapbox for what people do in their house. Why not? You say "a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are". So how does it do good telling NERD? You have a double standard here. And deflecting from that fact by asking if I am defending them is as transparent as it gets. Follow your own advice and you will see that "maybe you just missed it".

I do follow my own advice Jim Some people just can't be reached and that is a sad fact. And by this rational are you saying NERD is the same way?

Originally Posted by Jim O

I just went through why I think morons who free hand at home are asswipes, the ones who you won't get up on your soap box for because "a lot of good it does telling them how wrong they are". How in creation can you come to even the remotest idea that I support doing it in public.

Just making sure you didn't. You getting clear clarification of the facts.

Originally Posted by Jim O

All that I am asking for is some consistency. If people won't learn, why keep beating this dead horse? If that goes for your "friends" who free hand then why not for your sworn enemy? Seems like a double standard to me.

I have read this entire thread and there is a lot of inconsistancy in the beginning of it. But that seemed to be straightened out and I will not bring it up because I am not the topic here NERD is. Changing the subject away from them is doing nothing but make everyone look bad by not staying on the topic at hand which is NERD and how they made a big blunder in public by placing children and adults in danger with the showboat mentality they showed at that show.

Am I bashing NERD? NO but IMO some questions need answered. I do not need one person here to bash them. lets try to educate....kinda funny saying that about a leading breeder in this hobby but it seems it needs done.