HAPPY BIRTHDAY GARY!
*WARNING* DO NOT extend credit to or accept checks from Chaos Reptiles.
Buyers *BEWARE!*
The following e-mails were what transpired after Dan Peck from Chaos Reptiles wrote me a bad check for their weekly (and prior week’s) cricket orders for their retail store.
Due from Chaos Reptiles:
From: Dave (davecg@hotmail.com)
Sent: Mon 12/15/08 9:18 AM
To: Chaos (info@chaosreptiles.com)
Dan and Josh,
The following is an invoice of what you owe me:
(Note: the below numbers were accompanied with links which I have not included here but can furnish to any that wish)
$73.99
$80.19
$50.19
$46.99
$251.36
Average for flooring adhesive promised to be paid for: $62.84
Days worked promised to be paid for: 3 x 6 hours, 2 x 4 hours = 26 hrs x $7 = $182.00
9/1/08 28 cricket food, 38 cricket water – 22 food returned = 44 x .50 = $22.00
11/30/08 2 bags of Sani-chips $17.00
12/02/08 cricket order – 2500 ¾, 1500 ½, 1000 ¼, 250 WW, winter packing = $83.25
Total : $367.09
Please let me know when the CASH is available to be picked up.
Dan, as for the message you left me on my voice mail pertaining to me playing games, may I suggest you speak to your landlord or do a search for the word Slander. I don’t play games. If I have issue with someone I come straight at him or her and they’ll know I’m there and anybody with any sense knows this. Both you and Josh need to learn to shut your mouths. Rest assured, the next time that I hear of you slandering me I will pursue charges. Were I the one who called animal control on you back in October or November I would have been there and you would have known I was the one who called. I’m not the one who is playing games and telling lies. Would you like to explain how your cricket guy wouldn’t take a post dated check and stormed out of there? No, I wouldn’t take a bad check and still extend you further credit especially after not two days prior you claimed to have had a $1200.00 sale to a single person at the Hamburg show. Then tell me you’ll catch me at Cleveland, which would be another two weeks later, were you even able to vend the show. It is my understanding that you owe for the tables in Columbus and Cleveland for the month of November and skipped out without paying and are no longer welcomed to vend those shows.
In closing, I busted my ass helping the two of you out and this is how you treat a friend, well, consider this friendship over. I am rather picky about the type of person I consider to be my friend and between the two of you combined you lack too many of the necessary qualities for me to even acknowledge your presence.
A little advice, pay me what you owe me (and you both know you owe me way more than what is documented here), leave me alone and move on. If you choose not to heed my advice and continue with your crap then I can only guess you want my full attention and believe me you that is not something you want to have.
Dave
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From:
info@chaosreptiles.com
To:
davecg@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Due from Chaos Reptiles:
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:34:11 -0500
Dave,
I have never once slandered you ever. I consider you a friend of mine. As for the A.P.L coming to the store, they told us it was another officer who made the claim and dropped the case because there was nothing wrong. I never made word, thought, or even suggested it was you that called to anyone ever.
As for my tables at Columbus and Cleveland, We pre-pay every month, I did not give shay a check last month for pre-paid tables in December for two reasons, Brianna vended Columbus for me and she did not have a check to give, and shay was not at Cleveland last month so I didn’t give him a pre-paid check. How I conduct business and pay for my tables is no-ones business and I don’t owe the all Ohio reptile show or the all Cleveland show any money at this time. I am not sure who told you we are not welcome back to vend the shows but I have not received word of anything other than I will be vending Cleveland and Columbus next weekend.
When you came in to drop off the crickets, I told you I did not have the money, no cash available in the drawer because we just opened and my credit card sales did not settle from Hamburg yet. I also told you the show sucked, if it hadn’t been for the guy that dropped a bunch of money on one sale. Also to discuss my financial situation further, I placed a 2600.00 order with Loveland, I paid 1800.00 in rent, utilities and my phone bill on top of the 380.00 for my tables in Hamburg, 200.00 for mars, fuel, food, hotels and other costs such as tolls and misc expenses that arrive while traveling. You have never had a problem waiting for payment. If I knew you needed the cash ASAP I would have had it available for you.
I know very well that you have a great dislike for josh, and you guys have your own issues. But also know that I have never done anything to slander you, or anything other than be a friend who is defiantly indebted to you
Dan
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From: Dave [mailto:davecg@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:30 AM
To: Chaos
Subject: RE: Due from Chaos Reptiles:
Dan,
Let's cut the crap. First off you knew damn well I was needing the cash. Or do you not remember me showing and telling you about the crown I had break and that I needed the cash so I could get it fixed. I guess that slipped your mind. Like the story you told me and your differing claim now of how the PA shows went. Seems I recall you telling me you not only had the guy with the $1200 sale but all the pity sales you guys were getting since you were so wasted from drinking the night prior. Maybe you should try and remember who you tell what to and then maybe you could get your lies straight. And to keep on the subject of lies, if you recall a few weeks ago you asked me if you did things you said you were going to do and I said that I was still waiting to get paid for the hours worked you said I would get paid for. How about your claims of getting me customers like all the shops out by you, or the zoos? More lies? I went well out of my way to help you two and the only repayment I have received is empty promises, no new customers but actually the loss of at least one and the two of you bad mouthing me. Damn it's good to have friends like that.
As for your last sentence, I'm sorry but my friends do not lie to or about me. Your business partner like yourself have both now been told this and it seems you are two peas in a pod. This community is much smaller than you think and when you are running your mouths about me to others you never know who is listening and where their loyalties lie. I guess you are denying saying that the reason you did not have crickets was due to the cricket guy's unwillingness to take a post dated check, and that he had a s**t fit and stormed out. What you don't understand is there are many people who I know and I keep hearing more and more even from your customers who are now coming to me for crickets. Why would someone who didn't even know I supplied you guys crickets make up lies about what you had said?
So in closing, telling me you owe me and actually doing something about it is two different things. You say you’re a friend and (I'm guessing you meant definitely) difiantly indebted yet you address everything in your response except when you will make good on what you owe your "friend".
Again, I'd suggest paying me what you owe me, leave me alone and move on. I'd pass this information on to your business partner as well if he is not reading this too. I am rather sick of getting phone calls from people telling me they just talked to josh and he is running his mouth yet again.
Dave
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From:
info@chaosreptiles.com
To:
davecg@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Due from Chaos Reptiles:
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:52:13 -0500
Dave
The Pa shows went ok, I told you that. however The pa shows did not go well enough to cover my rent ( that was 2 days late) and the order I had to place so I had stuff to sell at the shows on top of other expenses. Everyday we have this store open and don’t make at least 500.00 in sales, we lose money. You are defiantly preaching to the choir about needing money. If I had it I would have given it to you but I simply did not have it. I had nothing but change in my drawer when you came in because we had just opened and I hadn’t made any sales yet for the day. My account was almost empty because of all the other stuff that posted. You are more than welcome to see for yourself, I can show you dated bank statements on line. As for me running my mouth I told a handful of people that I did not have the money to give you so you took the crickets back and it seemed as though you where having a bad day. Everyone else that came in I told them I didn’t have crickets on account of the weather. It is no body’s business why I am out of stock and how I conduct things here.
As for the zoo’s and other pet stores buying crickets, I was not blowing sunshine up your ass about that. There are a few zoo’s I have been dealing with that are interested in purchasing crickets and other feeders but if you have worked with any zoo, you would know it is a long process. When they place orders with us it is usually a 2-3 month process, then we ship and then it is another month awaiting payment. I needed that price breakdown so I could add feeders to my price list that goes out to the other pet stores, a lot of them are corporate and again it is a difficult process. I am trying to do what I can to make these sales and not give empty promises but again reserving patience is a big part of making theses sales and they wont just buy from random people.
You have never had a problem giving us credit, in fact you billed is monthly for a while and we decided it was easier to pay you weekly, I know you need the cash as much as the next guy but again I didn’t think It was a problem. I also thought Cleveland was the next weekend, but it was Columbus and it got rescheduled. I didn’t mean 2 weeks I was thinking the following weekend 3-4 days but Cleveland and Columbus are on odd days this month until Columbus got rescheduled. I would have also been able to pay you sooner had I had the crickets here to sell. Trust me Dave, I wish I had the money to pay you but I didn’t, and If I did it would suggest we are doing better at the shop than we are and all our debt would be caught up with you.
I know you did a lot to help us out and I am truly greatfull for all that you have done. You didn’t have transportation so we gave you a vehicle to use, it wasn’t much but it was us returning a favor and if you ever needed anything I never said no…. but you never really asked for anything.
If our friendship is as petty as 100.00 worth of crickets and some labor cost and a bucket of floor adhesive that’s the price you put on it, so be it. I know you don’t like josh and now you have a nice dislike for me, for whatever reason then that’s fine to. But so you know, I have never once done anything to talk crap about you, make assumptions or claims and I have always paid you as soon as possible for feeders, I have also tried to help you with no questions asked the handful of times you asked, I have also sent numerous people to get crickets from you at the shows instead of Vince like I told you I would do.
The economy if rough right now and things are tough on people all over, so if that’s the basis of a friendship then there wasn’t much of one there. I have no problem with you as a person, infact I thought we got along well. The down fall is business is not “booming” and that’s just how it is.
I will have the total balance in cash for you later today, I will call you when I have it. You can come get it and please return the key to the shop. Sorry things turned out this way. So you know I can’t blame you and I don’t have anything bad to say about you. It’s just business.
I also enjoyed hearing about the signs you put on your table at the Taylor show before sending me the original e-mail, that’s a great example to me of how you cherish your friendship’s.
Dan
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From: Dave [mailto:davecg@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:50 AM
To: Chaos
Subject: RE: Due from Chaos Reptiles:
Dan,
First off to reply to your last voice mail; seems like someone is being impatient. If you were only so anxious to pay me the first time we would not be here right now. But “all bulls**t and kidding aside”, again I am not playing games. I fell a few days ago and when you had called last evening I was sleeping for the first time in a few days. Also, if you remember (I’m guessing not) my computer is not working so I am limited to when I have access to another computer to the a.m. and evening. And to top it all off my van is acting up again and my customer who works on it has not been able to get over.
So the PA shows have now been upgraded from “sucked” to “went okay”, which still doesn’t match the tale you told me on Monday of the “killing”, but whatever.
You wrote, “If I had it I would have given it to you but I simply did not have it.” Though the previous week you told me you didn’t have the money and you’d catch me next week, but then you did have cash for someone else for snakes you wanted brought over. So you can lie to a “friend” about not having cash and justify it how? It was nice to find out within an hour that you had lied to me. It was very observant of you picking up that I was “having a bad day”. Too bad you didn’t connect it to being lied to by a “friend”. Then over the next week I am hearing of bad checks being written by Chaos Reptiles. Then I come in next week and you tell me that you’ll have to catch me in Cleveland. I told you I needed the money, again reminding you and showing you the missing crown. You then wrote me a check knowing full well it was not good. Damn nice way to treat your “friend”. I returned to the shop and you said you probably could catch me later and I told you “probably” wasn’t going to cut it and I picked the unpaid for crickets and told you I’d bring them back as soon as you called me to let me know you had money. I didn’t hear anything from you until Saturday evening when you and josh both called to find out what your balance is. Did I mention that I had heard that Chaos Reptiles had at least one outstanding animal order, which was delinquent being paid for too? I find it coincidental that it was only after I had the sign you mentioned you two wanted to settle your balance. Now since my phone had been ringing off the hook for the past two days when you and josh had called, my battery was dead and I was on the road. I replied via e-mail the following morning (again a reminder of my computer limitations) with an invoice per your requests.
As for the “handful of people” you told about not having money for the crickets, as I have said their version of the story and yours differ greatly.
Actually I did have a problem with extending you credit. At this point I had been hearing plenty of bad things about the shop, seen the poor upkeep of the animals first hand, and especially after the one and only month I billed you monthly and both you and josh about crapped yourselves when I gave you the bill for close to $400. It took you two weeks to catch that up and I was very relieved when you and josh requested to be billed weekly.
Again, you knew it was a problem as I told you it was and that I need the money to get my crown replaced.
Yes, you did loan me a vehicle when mine was broken down. Though it was not like I was driving all over creation and truth be told only one trip to the airport to pick up an order of crickets was your vehicle used for my purposes. Other than that I was only driving to and from the shop to deliver crickets or work. And the favor would have been rescinded had josh had his way when I put all the un-priced items on the floor for josh to finally price. You remember the notes, you were there that evening and read them and asked me not to tell josh you had been there. Then josh wanted the keys back, that I had crossed the line and that I was not to come up there because josh wanted to hit me. Well needless to say it was only two days later the vehicle was repossessed. I laughed my ass off at the irony of that and could have been convinced of the existence of karma at that very moment. You are right, I hardly ever asked for anything and actually it was only once, to get my critters and crickets to the show.
By all means attempt to make me sound unreasonable (or as you wrote “petty”) for wanting my money and having issue with being lied to and about. As for you sending customers to me versus Vince, while I do appreciate it and it was reciprocated, it’s been brought to my attention that your business partner has switched who he is supporting, so as to inform you in advance expect the same loyalty in kind.
You wrote, “its just business”. No, it’s bad business. Business is paying your bills on time, making good relations with customers, vendors, suppliers, etc… Not lying to your friends or taking advantage of their kindness. If you are going to treat a “friend” as you have then what kind of treatment can strangers expect? Well, I do not like being lied to or about and I certainly do not like getting screwed over by a friend and I am the kind of person who goes out of his way to help others (as I have done with both you and your business partner even after his temper tantrum) and informing others of the way you have treated a friend and how you have conducted business with me (hence the sign you spoke of enjoying hearing about). Again, you knew damn well I needed the money and your pitiful attempt to make me seem unreasonable or to put into question the way I treat my friends is just yet another failed manipulative attempt to switch the blame to me. I treat complete strangers better than you treat people you call your friend. You lied to me, and at that point our friendship ended. Again, my friends do not lie to or about me.
I’ll get with you when I am able to do so.
Dave
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Dave,
You have been more then generous with us that I will never deny.?
I told you, you can come and look at my bank account.? I placed an order of animals the week before on terms, the animals where shipped and my card was run for 1,800.00 Monday morning after Hamburg.? I also got animals from another person and I still have an outstanding balance with them as well, my rent came out, my phone bill came out, 2,600.00 came out for supplies so I can vend dry goods at the show and keep my shop open as to not inconvenience my customers.? My account became over drawn at that point. My sales from Monday brought my account back into good standing, and my sales from Tuesday did not post yet by Wednesday.? I had other bills coming out as well.? I had nothing in my drawer and deposits where still pending.?? My sales here on Wednesday were about 30-40 dollars, all credit cards that would again take a few days to post.? I wanted to settle up with you on the weekend and forgot you where in Taylor (hence the phone calls).? Again you can check my account if you want to. I have nothing to hide.? Also, I am not sure what you think but a new business that is still trying to build clientele is not an easy chore, sure ringing up sales are but behind the scenes trying to make sure everything is paid for and balancing everything is not easy. As you recall we where out of some products for a while of time, because we where not in a financial situation to order new merchandise because the money and sales where not there.? We did not take out loans and used up what liquid funds we had getting this place open.? If you also recall we had mountains of heat pads and 100 watt bulbs and 5.5 clamp lamps and other items.? We had to sell some of that inventory down to catch up on things.? So I apologize for using credit, you never had a problem with it.?? I was also relieved you would take payment weekly, as $400.00 in crickets a month is a hefty bill.? We started to sell the feeder cards to gain a little bit of capital as well and that relieved the load.?? Honestly Dave we are doing the best we can to make this work with not a lot of wiggle room and it defiantly would not have been possible without your help.
As for lies, was it wrong for me to say you didn’t drop off crickets because I didn’t have the money and you seemed to be having a shitty day??? I think that is about as honest as I can get. I am not sure what other lies you are thinking of, nor am I responsible for what other people say and how those things are interpreted.? I am strait foreword and I tell it like it is, you should know this by now.? I also didn’t write you a bad check, I gave you a check and said it may not go through but give it a try, it didn’t and I took it back. ??I also told you I have 2 vehicles, if your van was messed up I would be more than willing to let you use mine, infact you still can? if you need it.? That would be the least I can do.
Poor quality of animal up keep!!? I agree, and you can also say that, that has changed dramatically since I have been working the shop full time. ?
As for the sign, I found that out while I was writing my last email to you. Forgive me for trying to get you paid ASAP, witch I still have the money here for you in cash so whenever you can make it up it’s yours.
?The 4runner, we stopped paying that, and you knew it was going to get repossessed and that was our best option to get rid of a 750.00 month bill.? We lost out on it so we cut our loss and moved on. The irony was fantastic though!
?My phone calls to you last night where about a different reason. ?My trailer got stolen from behind the store and I was filling out a police report.? I was trying to see if you had seen anything or knew anything, since you drive by all the time.? Whoever took it will defiantly be prosecuted. ?That was the reason for the “no bullshit and kidding aside” comment I made; I was trying to get you to return my call.? It had nothing to do with anything other than me having the Broadview police here filling out a report and trying to give them as much info as possible.? Like I said in my last e-mail, things are hard right now and our luck over here is going from bad to worse
I also have never questioned the way you treat your friends. If I have a problem with someone I confront them, get their side and then make my decision whether I wish to continue my relationship with them or not.? I don’t put up signs about it. ?
?I know you well enough, that you don’t care what happened or what I say.? You have your mind made up and that’s just that.? ?If you wish not to do business with us that’s fine with me, I can get crickets elsewhere, and if our friend ship is over then that’s fine to.? That’s your choice not mine.? If you would have talked to me in person I could have explained and showed you the troubles we are having, instead no returned calls and emails.?? In short I have your money, all of it, a day after your total invoice, come get it when you want it, it’s here waiting.? I also have nothing bad to say about you, I haven’t said anything bad about you, nor will I.? you and josh are a different story, I have heard you bash him up and down and in front of a lot of people, so you are not innocent by any stretch for holding your tongue.? However that’s between you two, and I have done all that I can to keep a working functional relationship with chaos reptiles and you.?? It’s a shame things turned out this way, sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for all the help and support.
Dan
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From: Dave (davecg@hotmail.com)
Sent: Thu 12/18/08 9:38 AM
To: Chaos (info@chaosreptiles.com)
Dan,
I have absolutely no desire to view your banking account(s). I am aware that starting a new business is difficult (obviously more so than you and your business partner) and I had been giving the two of you advice that you had chosen to ignore (with the exception of a few things that josh would later take credit for as his own idea). You speak of not inconveniencing your customers yet I had pointed out on many occasions how your business was doing just that. When you first opened and when everyone from customers to the woman from the paper stated that josh was just sitting outside smoking and that he was there when they left last and there again when they returned. Items not priced, animals not priced, cages not cleaned, not opening on time or at all, having customers have to walk the maze of the store when things are left out and in the way and hours changing to mention a few. I stopped having my customers come up there to pick up crickets when my customers were inconvenienced by the hours being changed without notice and then the shop not even opening the following day. When your business inconvenienced my customer and was the cause of loss of a customer to me, I stopped having my customers come there. So yes, I am aware (and again, obviously more so than you and your business partner) of how to build a clientele and I go out of my way to keep my customers happy. Even when I was without a vehicle, neither you nor any of my other customers went without crickets.
Yes, I recall your lack of supplies, but again had my advice been heeded you would have been better off. I tried to explain to josh that you already had a customer base that was reptile related and that the addition of cat, dog and bird toys and supplies was a waste of time, money and space that could have been utilized for more reptile supplies seeing as that was your already existing customer base. Now, many months later you talking about getting rid of those items and expanding your reptile supplies.
As I had told you on many occasions your biggest problem is josh. His unwillingness to maintain the animals properly due to both laziness and ignorance of proper animal husbandry, his limited animal knowledge and his inability to maintain a working relationship with other people.
You wrote: ” As for lies, was it wrong for me to say you didn’t drop off crickets because I didn’t have the money and you seemed to be having a s***ty day???.” Had that been what you said, no, but we both know that is not what you said. I was soft spoken due to the customer that was present and my unwillingness to embarrass you in front of your customer, though disappointment surely should have been observed, but I was not anything other than polite when saying I’d bring the crickets when you had the money. Which is more than what you deserved after writing me a bad check. As for your next sentence, “I also didn’t write you a bad check, I gave you a check and said it may not go through but give it a try”, HORSE CRAP! You are a LIAR! (hence the answer to your statement of, “I am not sure what other lies you are thinking of?” You DID NOT tell me it would not go through (had you I’m sure we wouldn’t be here now). “I think that is about as honest as I can get.” Now that statement I believe and it is truly sad.
Actually no, I can NOT say the animal up keep has dramatically changed since you have been there full time. I have still observed animals without any water whatsoever, and before you even try the excuse that it is so dry in the shop, it is not the dryness it’s the complete lack of a water bowl in the tank or enclosure. Or how about the day we were talking on the phone and you told me of the rats eating each other. How about the day I was there and the customer wanted to know if the Emperor scorpion was gravid or not? I picked her up and said, “no, she’s not gravid, she’s dead”. The lack of a source of water and the temperature being too low for it could very well have been the cause of it’s demise or at least a few contributing factors. I guess you were not aware that I saw the dead Sunbeam snake you had in the garbage can either. And even while having my “s***ty day” I observed the snakes and geckos still cupped up from the past weekend’s show. That’s at least 6 days cupped up without food or water. But then I hear from someone else that on Friday these animals were still cupped up. So, again I will have to say NO, the animal up keep has not dramatically changed since you are there full time.
Yes I had an idea the 4runner was going to be repossessed but it was not due to you or josh admitting to it. In fact I had even said something to josh about it approximately a week prior to it being repossessed and he said it was nowhere near that behind.
Well it’s sounding a lot like an accusation what you have written about your missing trailer coupled with your voice mail. We will discuss this when I come to pick up my money.
You wrote: “I also have never questioned the way you treat your friends.” And, “If our friendship is as petty as 100.00 worth of crickets and some labor cost and a bucket of floor adhesive that’s the price you put on it, so be it.” And, “I also enjoyed hearing about the signs you put on your table at the Taylor show before sending me the original e-mail, that’s a great example to me of how you cherish your friendship’s. Sounds like you may want to re-read some of the things you have written since your memory doesn’t seem to be that good.
As I has said previously, if I have issue with someone I come straight at him or her. I heard your side of the story when you didn’t tell me the check you wrote me was from your Goodyear account. I was rather disappointed that you had cancelled the Taylor show. The sign was my way of coming straight at one I have issue with, coupled with me being the helpful person I am, the sign was to inform others of the potential troubles of extending credit to or accepting checks from Chaos Reptiles. I would not like it if another one of my friends were to fall victim to accepting a bad check from Chaos Reptiles. I value my friends and if I can help them avoid such circumstances I certainly will.
I did not ever say I did not want to do business with you. I would gladly still sell you crickets, I just will not extend you credit nor accept checks after this. As for it being my choice to end the friendship, well as I have said before, my friends do not lie to or about me. Again, those who lie to or about me are not my friends. You chose to lie to and about me, therefore, you made the choice to end the friendship, not me. It is not like this should have come as a surprise to you since I explained this to you when your business partner did the same thing a few months prior. Again, the similarities between you and your business partner are uncanny.
I explained to you why I e-mailed you, that my phone had died, that my van is having troubles and my customer had not been here to look at it, that I had fallen, that I was sleeping when you called the following evening, and that I would get with you as soon as I could. Seems like you are implying I am avoiding you, which makes absolutely no sense since I am in need and want the money you owe me and you say you have it.
As for josh and I, yes, I have said plenty about josh, though the difference between what I have said and what josh says is I am telling the truth and nothing more. Josh is being vindictive, malicious and telling lies. And since he is one half of Chaos Reptiles he is speaking for you by association.
I will do my best to get over there today if I am able.
Dave
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Now, I have been paid but there is at least one person I am responsible for introducing to them who has not (who will be posting here shortly). That coupled with the lies that are still being told by them, the customers that they have sold poor quality animals to (that will be posting as well) that I feel responsible for bringing to their business and their other customers who have purchased misrepresented animals like a 66% het for cinnamon ball python (look for them to be posting soon too), I feel the need to make this post so that others will not be taken by these two.
Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone
Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone
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