Keven Vogenberger Misrepresenting Imports.

Originally Posted by Fat Frog

Read keven2's ad.
title says captive born and the body of ad says captive bred.
they sure as hell are not captive bred.

Here is another ad for tegus with the same language, using the 2 terms interchangeably, but with photos of eggs and what is apparently a newly hatched baby.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=664691

Did you contact Keven to clarify the language, or did you come straight here to post another bad guy thread?

Not saying I would personally feel comfortable buying from Keven, but I fail to see how this thread is helpful.

The irony of Ed Clark starting a bad guy thread.

I don't know Keven at all but he's not got a bad name so I like to give people the benefit of the doubt lol Let's say he does go down to strictly and picks out the best CH of the lot and ups the price a little. To some there might be value in that. Sure they could order directly but perhaps they like the idea of having someone local looking over the stock, sending individual pics, etc. Anything born in indo, I personally would list as ch not cb no matter what I was told, but that's just me.

Originally Posted by snakesareawesome

I don't know Keven at all but he's not got a bad name so I like to give people the benefit of the doubt lol Let's say he does go down to strictly and picks out the best CH of the lot and ups the price a little. To some there might be value in that. Sure they could order directly but perhaps they like the idea of having someone local looking over the stock, sending individual pics, etc. Anything born in indo, I personally would list as ch not cb no matter what I was told, but that's just me.

Keven has had some less than stellar transactions, to be honest. He may have even had one with regards to captive hatched vs. captive bred origin (I do not specifically recall). Captive bred/born/hatched have been erroneously used interchangeably for years, and many times unintentionally.

The whole point here is that Ed is assuming they are indo imports, and I'm not sure I would label this particular ad as dishonest until I, as a buyer, asked further questions about the origins of the animals. I know I would not intentionally seek out to smear someone with whom I had no intention of doing business based on some ambiguous wording.

I guess, in short, is Keven still a bad guy if I call him up and ask him for breeder info, and he discloses that they were hatched in captivity from WC adults?

I don't know Keven or Fat frogs but sure seems like Fat frogs loves to attack Keven, right or wrong. Any add I have ever seen from Keven Fat frogs has to blast him, seems kinda obsessed.

I agree with Liveforthis, seems kind of childish in my opinion.

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

I guess, in short, is Keven still a bad guy if I call him up and ask him for breeder info, and he discloses that they were hatched in captivity from WC adults?

I'm not so sure he'd be a bad guy, but pretty close. Dishonesty is bad business.

the babies are dropped from pregnant wc imports, so technically are born in captivity

Originally Posted by ChanceJackson

the babies are dropped from pregnant wc imports, so technically are born in captivity

That would still fall under captive hatch, even though this species give live birth.