Current Status of the Reptile Industry

I don't think that supply is exceeding demand, I think it's just slow on the uptake, if that makes any sense--I think the animals will all sell, it just may take longer, and they may sell for a little bit lower than folks would like--but they'll sell.

I also think that it's WRONG to think of people who buy pairs of snakes to breed as future competitors. Do you honestly think very many people out there will ever buy a $3000 snake as JUST a pet? The up and coming breeders are your customers, not your competitors. When they're moving into the lower rungs of breeding, you'll be moving up--and they'll still be buying from you. Encourage them!

It DOES look like a great big pyramid scheme, but there is a relief valve at the bottom known as the pet trade--the lowest priced animals wind up there, and they are worth just enough to enable the owner to care for their parents. Endeavor to get more people interested in breeding reptile morphs--as they do, they'll be buying more higher-value animals, and selling the offspring they produce to newbies just getting into the hobby--there are about 7 babies being born in the US every minute. If you only get a few new herpers every hour, there are still plenty of customers up and coming.

I do agree with many of the comments posted above. I have recently talked to a few breeders that upon returning from Daytona, have said that they noticed a sharp decline in their overall sales at that show, while others said they did ok.

I think overall you have your good shows and your bad shows as far as sales go, and while some people may indeed notice a decline, others may continue to remain stable an do well. I think alot is in the definition of good. Some vendors need to reach a $ goal to make it a good show, while others are happy with just selling as much as they possibly can.

I agree that the market is saturated with way to many shows, and way to much of the same animals being offered fo sale, this coupled with a troubled economy, is in part to blame for the decrease in the value of animals. These animals will eventually sell, most likely not for what they are truly worth. As things begin to get better these animals will probably see a slight rise in there overal resale value, but I doubt that they will fall back into perspective as to where they should be, and to where we would all like them to be.

Originally Posted by jntreptiles

These animals will eventually sell, most likely not for what they are truly worth. As things begin to get better these animals will probably see a slight rise in there overal resale value, but I doubt that they will fall back into perspective as to where they should be, and to where we would all like them to be.

I blame this on people that think they need to drop there prices every week to get the animals sold as soon as possible. I will never produce more than I can take care of and feed. So if they don't sell I will hang onto them and sell them as adults/subadults. Too many people can't afford to take care of their offspring and feel the need to dump them every year. If you can't afford to hang onto them, don't produce them.

I think it's a bit unrealistic to hang onto animals stubbornly trying to get a price that they might never sell at again, though. If you're BHB or NERD, you can get away with it--those who are just starting out most certainly can't. I mean, we could all hang on to ALL of our animals and never sell any of them, but exactly what is the point of that? It's not going to make the market prices go back up, because there will always be people selling out quickly for cash in their hand. I am running a business--if the market prices drop, and I don't drop my prices with them, I will not sell anything. If I do not sell anything, I don't have much of a business, do I?

There isn't anything unethical or wrong with selling animals for the going market prices. If those prices seem too low...honestly, that just has to be accepted, that's just the way it is. I would hang on to some particularly exceptional animals and demand what I think they are worth, and doubtless I will get it, because they ARE exceptional--but if the market prices fall on the rest of them, I'll drop my prices to match. That doesn't mean lowering them every week, it just means paying attention to what the averages are on all of the advertising sites, and pricing them accordingly.

If you're not running a reptile breeding business, but are funding your breeding from some other job, then it doesn't matter if you hang on to all of your offspring every year. But if you expect your reptile breeding business to support itself, you have to sell some of them in order to sustain the business for the coming year. I don't really see the point in stating that it's a bad thing for someone to need to sell a certain amount in order to make their business viable. That just doesn't make any sense.

I've seen a lot of comments that seem to indicate that someone who isn't independently wealthy, or doesn't have an entire year's worth of funds socked away to pay for everything in case of absolute 0 income is doing something wrong by breeding snakes. I don't get it, frankly. That's just unrealistic, completely unrealistic. There is nothing wrong with managing your snake business as a business.

I won't lower my prices past a certain point, but I will certainly not hang onto all of the animals for an entire year in hopes they will sell at my original price, if that price is higher than the current market rate. That just wouldn't be a wise business move.

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

I think it's a bit unrealistic to hang onto animals stubbornly trying to get a price that they might never sell at again, though. If you're BHB or NERD, you can get away with it--those who are just starting out most certainly can't. I mean, we could all hang on to ALL of our animals and never sell any of them, but exactly what is the point of that? It's not going to make the market prices go back up, because there will always be people selling out quickly for cash in their hand. I am running a business--if the market prices drop, and I don't drop my prices with them, I will not sell anything. If I do not sell anything, I don't have much of a business, do I?

There isn't anything unethical or wrong with selling animals for the going market prices. If those prices seem too low...honestly, that just has to be accepted, that's just the way it is. I would hang on to some particularly exceptional animals and demand what I think they are worth, and doubtless I will get it, because they ARE exceptional--but if the market prices fall on the rest of them, I'll drop my prices to match. That doesn't mean lowering them every week, it just means paying attention to what the averages are on all of the advertising sites, and pricing them accordingly.

If you're not running a reptile breeding business, but are funding your breeding from some other job, then it doesn't matter if you hang on to all of your offspring every year. But if you expect your reptile breeding business to support itself, you have to sell some of them in order to sustain the business for the coming year. I don't really see the point in stating that it's a bad thing for someone to need to sell a certain amount in order to make their business viable. That just doesn't make any sense.

I've seen a lot of comments that seem to indicate that someone who isn't independently wealthy, or doesn't have an entire year's worth of funds socked away to pay for everything in case of absolute 0 income is doing something wrong by breeding snakes. I don't get it, frankly. That's just unrealistic, completely unrealistic. There is nothing wrong with managing your snake business as a business.

I won't lower my prices past a certain point, but I will certainly not hang onto all of the animals for an entire year in hopes they will sell at my original price, if that price is higher than the current market rate. That just wouldn't be a wise business move.

That's where the part of getting your name out there and doing the work to get the sales. Sticking an ad on 1 or 2 sites or KS doesn't qualify as "working" to get sales. Tons of people in this business makes sales and don't constanly lower prices. It seems everyone today has the "Walmart" mentality, I got to be the cheapest to sell animals. That's because they think the animals should sell themselves. They don't!!!! Then you add all the butt ugly animals people are pumping out, why? Then when they don't sell they want to slash prices. If people would start doing selective breedings and strive to produce the best quality, they could get the top dollar. Larger animals usually sell for more than hatchlings, so why not feed them and sell them later instead of just dropping prices? If you put yourself in the position that you have to sell animals to live, maybe you should rethink your business plan. Reptile breeding isn't a given, even for the easiest of species. Females reabsorb, males fail to produce, eggs go bad, odds on production can screw you.

Another thing, I know quite a few breeders who produce animals and sell out every year. Guess what, they never have to place an ad to sell anything. If you can't afford to hang on to what you produce, maybe you shouldn't produce it.

Plus something else most people don't think about. When you're trying to get sales most of the people buying from you are breeders or future breeders. If they see people dumping animal prices on a weekly or monthly basis, why would they buy into it? Would you buy into a project that is dropping in price constantly? They're cutting their own throat.

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

I am running a business--if the market prices drop, and I don't drop my prices with them, I will not sell anything. If I do not sell anything, I don't have much of a business, do I?

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

Yes, I'm psychic, I run a metaphysical business.

Guess the psychic and metaphysical business aren't working out to well huh? Have you dropped those prices as well?

Since you seem so interested, my business has two branches--the metaphysical (Eclipse Metaphysical) and the snakes (Eclipse Exotics). I've run some sales and had to come up with a lot of new ideas to keep the metaphysical end up, because the recession's hit that area hard. Nevertheless, that branch is my daily living. The reptile breeding branch is something that I'm still building, and certainly isn't going to be supporting me for several more years. It does, however, support itself AND earn a profit. The bulk of that profit is promptly reinvested.

The snakes are actually doing pretty well, and my prices are mid-market, as far as I can see. I do some research before setting those prices.
This year is our first show--we're going to have a table at the Nebraska Reptile Breeders Expo. I'm quite looking forward to it. This is our second year for the snakes, and we're still learning the ins and outs, but overall I'm extremely happy with the decision I made to go into this business in the first place. You're going to be seeing us around for a long time to come.

Dropping prices don't scare me. If I start seeing morphs at the same prices as normals, then I'll worry, but I'm not holding my breath. I didn't come into this expecting to make back a 10 grand investment in 3 animals in just one year. If that ever happens, that's lovely, but I'm not expecting it.

You expect folks to breed selectively for higher quality animals--most people who aren't just starting out strive to do that, but not every animal produced, even in a good pairing, is going to be exceptional. What did you have in mind for the ones that aren't? Did you believe they would be sold only as pets? Ball python morphs rarely sell as pets.

Surely you don't expect everyone to get top dollar under this ideal system you're thinking up? That's not the way life works. The people with the best animals are still going to get top dollar, and everyone else is going to get something less than that.

Logically speaking, the lower-quality animals should be sold for less.
Well, they are being sold for less.
I think I missed what your actual complaint was.

You did say something interesting: "If you ever put yourself into a position where you have to sell animals to live, maybe you should rethink your business plan". According to this, you do not believe that breeding snakes is a viable business. You don't believe someone can earn a living doing it. That's the only reason I can think of for a comment like that. Unless you believe that a person should be independently wealthy before they begin a reptile breeding business. That would certainly enable them to never have to sell an animal to earn a living. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of a business to earn a living? If not, then it's just a hobby.

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

You did say something interesting: "If you ever put yourself into a position where you have to sell animals to live, maybe you should rethink your business plan". According to this, you do not believe that breeding snakes is a viable business. You don't believe someone can earn a living doing it. That's the only reason I can think of for a comment like that. Unless you believe that a person should be independently wealthy before they begin a reptile breeding business. That would certainly enable them to never have to sell an animal to earn a living. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire point of a business to earn a living? If not, then it's just a hobby.

Wow, you insinuated a lot from one sentence, must be part of your "psychic" abilities? Ask any big breeder or person that runs a "business" with live animals involved. You have to be prepared for times with little or even no sales. These people don't start dropping prices till people come in. Sales in these type of businesses can be very cyclic in nature. So if you don't have the money to live periods of time without selling animals to live. Then you need to find a day job. Polish some more rocks and capture spirits or whatever the hell you do.

Bill,

You made some great posts and I couldn't find one to quote that I liked more than another. I vended at the White Plains show this past weekend and business was solid. The show was packed and people were buying. I can afford to hold onto animals until they sell for MY price.

I guess Donna's psychic abilities didn't help clue her in earlier to help prepare for the poor sales she is seeing. Ooops...