When a hatchling refuses to eat

I was wondering if I could get some input from the breeders/sellers on this one. If you had sold, lets just say for arguments sake a pair of hatchling gray banded kings as "un-scented pinky eaters" and you got an e-mail a week later from the buyer stating 1 of them refused to feed. Where do you go from there?
spam_This question hits home for me as I have another post soon to follow after some time passes. Im a fair person, as a buyer, but would like to see the flip side of the coin from the breeder's standpoint.
spam_Please, just take a moment, and fill in the survey!
spam_Thanks!
spam_Tommy Dowling

I really didnt vote because I don't like the options too much.  We NEVER sell anything that isn't 100% feeding and in excellent condition.  If I have anything that isn't 100% I advertise it as not 100% and list the problems and make sure any interested parties KNOW WHATS UP.  If say a gecko has a regenerated tail or a corn hatchling hasn't fed I wil be positive I told the customer at least 2 times to let it be known and let them make their decision to purchase it or not.  In the unlikely event I send out a 100% perfect animal feeding and the customer says its not doing well for them for some reason we offer a few options.  FIRST we ask what the customer would like done about the situation, and listen.  If a customer wants an exchange or refund it's fine by ame as long as they are satisfied (that's what keeps em coming back). Secondly we offer any advise on acclimating it if thats what they choose and ask a aray of questions that could be attibuting to the problemand try to sort it out.  We do guarentee our animals and I agree and disagree on certain breeders Guarentees.  For instance on the Order Page of my site I give 48 hour guarentee but have extended it to up to a month before.  Most snakes don't and won't feed daily (unlike some geckos for instance) and I never recommend feeding a snake drectly after shipping or being hauled to a show, then home by the customer.  So it's all possible they wont even feed it within the first few days nevertheless 48 hours. I think it all boils down to just finding a reputable breeder whom is known for good customer service.  If the communication is poor from the beginning you can probably bet it will be poor if a situation comes up.  Hope any of this helps answer any of your excellent questions.

In this situation I would attempt to explain species specific feeding responses and proper tease feeding (it does NOT involve smacking the animal in the face until it bites to make that stop) perhaps reccomend a scenting method  and particular feeding methods,  offering all assistance possible if they wish to keep the animal in question...

However the item is not exactly as it was represented to be, even though "feeding" is something that can easily change... animals can't get stressed and lose those het for anery genes or accidently turn into tokay geckos during shipping, but they can go off feed... And I would have to be prepared to take the animal back for refund or replacement and eat the shipping costs involved... or both animals if it was sold as a sexed and unrelated pair for breeding use later on.

If the buyer was interested in trying scenting or alternative feeding methods, I would personally allow them to do so while still having been made aware of the possibility and standing ready to have the snake(s) returned if they are not satisfied.

These are however only my personal feelings on the matter and I did once ship a GTP out prior to payment being sent so I may not be representative of a "normal" response.

Of course I sent the GTP to a man I have the utmost trust for and he was actually doing me a favor at the time... But still.

I only deal with corns, so my experience is somewhat limited, but I have certain things I would do if I EVER had someone unhappy with one of my hatchlings.

First, I make sure to let them know that I stand behind my animals.  If the snake gets there and they don't like its color, attitude, or whatever, and they want a refund/exchange, I need to know about that immediately.  But if it is a corn that I KNOW is a feeder, and it just isn't eating within the first 48 hours or so, I am perfectly willing to extend any guarantee for refund/exchange in order to overcome the little guy's shyness about eating in his new home.

Second, I'd give them all of the help I can to get the animal to eat, taking them through the steps necessary to get the feeding responses to kick in.  I ONLY sell feeding snakes (unless explicitly stated in the purchasing agreement that the animal(s) are non-feeders, and I get that in writing! ), so I am confident that I can help anyone get one of my babies to eat with minimal effort over the phone or via email.

Finally, in the EXTREMELY RARE event that a cornsnake will not eat for someone after it has been a successful, voluntary feeder for me, I'd chalk it up to the husbandry practices at the customer's set-up, offer to refund the money (all of it), pay the shipping back to me, and resell the baby after I get it to eat for me three times in a row voluntarily on f/t pinkies.

That is why I chose the "take a wait and see attitude" even though that option seems to convey a negative attitude the way it's written.  I just think that feeding is something that can be halted by shipping/new surroundings, but it is also something that can be restarted in a week or so.

This is rather timely in that I am mulling over rewording my guarantee for this very same reason.

Basically people are buying animals like they think they are toaster ovens.  Of course when you take your toaster out of the box, put in the bread and press the button and it doesn't toast, it would be defective.

But suppose the toaster had it's own mind?  It could DECIDE not to toast because it didn't like you standing nearby, or didn't like being on the counter next to the can opener, or it was too hot, or too cold, or any other number of reasons?  And it did not TELL you why it would not toast, YOU would have to figure it out.

This is what we go through every year shipping out animals.  When the wife and I get home from a show, for the next day whenever the phone rings, we look at each other and shout "My snake won't eat!".  Of course most of the calls are not about that, but it's now an inside joke between us.

Truth is, yes, some snakes will stop eating, and apparently for no discernible reason.  At least any reason that is discernible by you, but probably quite a big deal for the snake.

I have had snakes that stopped eating when I put a hide box in their cage.  They resumed feeding when it was removed.

I have had to freeze up a bunch of my own pinky mice for one reason or another.  I also buy LOTS of frozen pinkies from Cajun Mice.  Put in a Cajun pinky and they will eat it right away.  Put in one of my own stock, and they don't even know it's there.  And visa versa.

Any snake can decide to stop eating after ANY meal.  Most will resume if you find out what it is that made it stop eating.
Often it can be nothing more than doing something slightly different to 'kick start' it back on track.  Some will not resume, regardless of how well they were feeding beforehand. Deciding that they want something you cannot provide, or just deciding to go suicidal will often have the same result.

So here's the point of this:  How can I guarantee something like this when many times it is the new environment the animal was placed in, the different husbandry techniques the new owner is using, or something in it's own mind just told it that it doesn't want to eat what it is now being offered?

I guarantee my animals for one month after delivery for HEALTH.  The problem is that feeding is not often an indication of a health problem as the root of refusal to feed.  Certainly if it does not eat, for whatever the reason, it will BECOME a health issue, but if it is because the animal was being kept in an environment that was too cold or every waking moment that snake had human eyes staring at it and was scared to death, where does my responsibility end?

Fortunately, this happens far less times than not, so it's not a real big issue, but it usually happens at the time of year when I am the busiest.  Every minor problem just takes away time from things that are very pressing, and this needs to be at least addressed to make the purchasers aware of what they are getting into.

I only send out animals that have fed for me multiple times unless there is a special circumstance that the purchaser has specifically requested.  I do not believe it is in my long term best interests to send out animals that I know the buyer will have problems with.

My policy specifically states that I will replace animals that suffer a health related problem within 30 days of receipt.  This requires the purchaser to return the animal, at their expense, and I will ship a replacement, also at their expense. This was for a reason.  I WANT the purchasers to make their best effort to resolving the problem themselves.  If the return policy is too easy, then they will make no effort whatsoever to try to figure out what they may be doing wrong.

Now this does sound a bit harsh, but I believe it has to be.  Firstly, if someone buys a $25 Okeetee corn and it won't feed, for me to pay for shipping back to me and then for the replacement to the customer would cost me far more than the animal is worth.  I can only recall a couple of instances where I have had to deal with a situation where a return and/or replacement was the only way to resolve the problem.  In reality, the attitude of the customer will dictate how I respond.  99 percent of the time, I will send a replacement without the return of the original animal as long as the customer pays the shipping.  In instances where animals were to show up dead (this happened to me in one group of shipments I tried via 2nd day service) the entire expense is on my head.

Yeah, I expect some people are going to flame on in here about my policy, but I have my reasons for it.  How about this as an example:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SerpenCo Order Form
&nbsp; &nbsp; Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:43:43 -0500
&nbsp; &nbsp;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Jennifer X)
Reply-To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; serpenco@serpenco.com

Comments:
The butter corn hatchling you gave me died. Could you send me a replacement for male buttercorn. I would like
a male butter corn hatchling to replace the one that died. Will &nbsp;be or do I have to pay it for. If I have to
pay for it then use the visa numers &nbsp;below. Please let me know as soon as possible.



================================================== =============

Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Please send another replacement male butter same age as the second one you sent
&nbsp; Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:47:58 EDT
&nbsp; From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;x
&nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&lt;rich@serpenco.com&gt;


To Whom It May Concern:Rich

This is Jennifer &nbsp;e-mailing, I seem to be having problems with the butter corn you sent me. Could you
please send me a replacement same age as the second one you sent. Since both didn't make it, could you pay for
the shipping. My address is XXXXX please get back to me and let me know is
this is possible, or you can use the same Visa numbers, i gave you before with the card that expires on XX\XX
but i would prefer if you could take care of the shipping or just send the replacement free of charge. &nbsp;

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jennifer X

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Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Have one your snakes ever ripped a couple layers of skin off
&nbsp; Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:24:36 EDT
&nbsp; From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;X
&nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&lt;rich@serpenco.com&gt;


TO Whom IT May Concern:Rich

This is Jennifer e-mailing you. I have question to ask you. Have one of your snakes ever managed to rip some
skin off that it left a red open area. The one butter corn that i have did. I have been applying hydrogen
peroxcide to the open area, i need to know if there is anything else should be applied. I am curious are
butter corns man made or not? Please get back to me as soon as possible and let me know what I should be
treating his open area with.

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jennifer X

================================================== ==============

Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SerpenCo Order Form
&nbsp; &nbsp; Date: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 01<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3:29 -0600
&nbsp; &nbsp;From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Jennifer X)
Reply-To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; serpenco@serpenco.com


Comments:
This is a 29% deposit for a male candycane when they are born next year. I will pay the other half when it
comes time to ship him. The first butter corn you sent unfortunately didn't make it. He died a day or two ago
and right now I am keeping a constant on the replacement that you sent you. Can you tell me if butter corns
are problem feeders and hybrids, I need to know if they are the weaker type of cornsnake. Please get back to
me as soon as possible and let me know.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Please note the inconsistent account of the Butter Corns. &nbsp;I checked around and found I wasn't the only one this has happened to.

Bear in mind, that in the first instance, I sent her a replacement without the return of the original animal. &nbsp;This has been my normal method of replacement. &nbsp;But the benefit of strict policies is that I do not have to follow them myself. &nbsp;But I can fall back on them if I do not get a good feeling about what is going on or I think the animal may just be better off being back with me. &nbsp;I handle each situation on a case by case basis. &nbsp;And in all instances I try to be as fair as humanly possible in the overall picture.

I would like to thank you taking the time to post. Your replies were very well worded, and gave me a lot of food for thought.
&nbsp; In my instance yes I did recieve a pair of kings. Yes 1 fed almost instantly, however 1 refused to. I exchanged e-mails with the breeder asking for suggestions. I followed his suggestions to the letter. I even posted on KingSnake asking for more help when all else failed. Aside from trying my standard &quot;brand&quot; of thawed pinky, I also went with another brand. I brained both &quot;brands&quot;. I also tried 2 different live pinkys.
&nbsp;&quot;Teasing&quot; the gray band would result in a strike, but refusal to feed. We tried changing the enclosure twice, along with adding/removing the hide box. The same thing went for the water bowl as well. We raised the temp to a high of 87 and a low of 80 &lt;with night time cool downs as well&gt;.
&nbsp; In the end we went as far as to place the pinkie in the gray's mouth. She would hold it for up to an hour, but in the end always refused it. Mind you, we did not stand over her like my mom did when I refused to eat my greens! We alternated feeding times, we even tried feeding her in total darkness, brown bag as the breeder said she did eat in before.
&nbsp;The Gray expired this week. I froze her and am awaiting my friend to take digital photo's of her for me.
&nbsp; Mind you, this is from a breeder whom is considered a &quot;good guy&quot;. The markings were excellant on this snake as well. I have sent an e-mail to the breeder, but this has gone un-answered for the past 2 days.
&nbsp; I'm a patient man, and will give him 1 week before I post anything specific. But as the last e-mail went unaswered, and the one before it letting him know &quot;she still will not feed&quot; I'm a little nervous.
&nbsp;So thanks 1 and all for giving me a breeders perspective on all this.

&nbsp;Tommy Dowling NY &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

I have sold relatively few snakes over the net, and a few more at shows. I sell ones that are feeding well, and sometimes offer those that are not feeding yet or are problem feeders. Any type of problem feeder or one that has not fed is so advertised - no surprises from me. I would give a refund or exchange on a feeder that went off feed, as long as it was returned to me in healthy condition. Some dealers may not do so, and the problem may not be their fault. The thing is that sometimes even a good feeder will go off feed when it winds up in a new home. There are lots of possible reasons as listed in the previous posts. Then there is the problem of such species as the one you mentioned - notorious problem feeders when babies. Not only can they be problem feeders when it comes to eating pinkies, some don't even readily go for lizards.

Still now that you have gotten this guy I think it is your responsibility to try to get it to feed even if it was before but has since stopped. Sure you should let the seller know and see what he/she says, but give this snake a bit more time. In all the advice I have given out over the years on problem feeder snakes, or newly acquired snakes one very important point is that when you get it and place it into its new enclosure, if it does not eat right away, you do not try to feed it for about another 4 days to a week. This helps alleviate the stress of shipping, and winding up somewhere new. Personally I try to feed them right away too, but if it does not eat, I then follow my own advice and wait about 7 days. This way the snake gets a nice hunger going. Then when I feed it I try to allow it to eat in a secure place such as inside a deli cup overnight. I make sure to offer a hiding place even in a deli cup such as some extra paper toweling. This usually works. If it does not eat after two to three weeks and you are absolutely ceretain you are keeping it correctly (and alone away from other snakes), then it is time to ask for the exchange or refund. Of course, you are right to contact the seller earlier and advise of the potential problem so the seller can start thinking about a remedy. Hopefully the snake will eat, but if it does not, hopefully the seller will give you an exchange or refund. Good luck

Guys,

People make mistakes and things go &nbsp;wrong sometimes terribly wrong, even for me. If the snake is cheap and plentifull in my collection, i.e. it is a cal king and I have dozens more, then I ask that they send me back the non eating snake and pay postage and I will send them out one that I PERSONALLY have just seen eat and pay postage back. This is the last one I will send them.I would also explain proper tease feeding and scenting techniques with them over the net. Things go wrong you cant stop that, thes4 are animals not timex wayches. We try and make it right but sometimes due to money restraints it is impossible or slow in comeing. Expensive snakes or ones where there are no replacements would proabbly need a refund, but it would take time...and alot of it.

Fred Albury
Aztec Reptiles

I voted wait and see. spam_The animals that we send are eating very well, not just ok. spam_I recently refused to sell a snake to a client who was interested in that particular snake because it was on sale. It missed the last two meals since I posted it as available. spam_I offered a better snake at a very reasonable price, well below market as the original snake was on sale due to late hatch and small size. spam_I lost the sale. spam_I did the right thing. spam_If a snake I sell does not eat after arrival I always assume it is husbandry related. spam_Most of my snakes are subadults by the time I sell them so I know it is not the snake. spam_I would refund cash upon live return of the animal (their cost). spam_If it died, then I would refund cash after I pay for shipping back and get a necropsy proving a health problem not associated with husbandry. spam_This would protect me from abuse and would likely keep me from reimbursing cash, unless it truly was a long standing problem with the snake, then I would quickly refund the cash. spam_Selling sub adults helps to rule out that option. spam_I would have a proven history of health. spam_I will do what is right no matter what it costs me, but I won't be target for abuse.

Sincerely,

James and Vickie Bryan