Bite put me in the ER - Questions

See what happens when I try to post at work - I get paged in the middle, and somebody else posts the info first, lol

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Rick, I have mixed feelings about that one, lol. I agree with the statements, but I don't necessarily think a keeper is wrong to let himself get bitten. Personally, aside from hots and a few special cases, I've never worried about it.

Well, to demonstrate a point, or satisfy my ongoing curiousities, even i have voluntarily taken hits from known biters. Other than to demonstrate, or otherwise teach someone or yourself, a certain point, I have to disagree with "letting" a snake or lizard bite you. It just makes NO sence. LOL But hey, if it thrills you..........

As for the article. That was very interesting. My mom sent that too me on thurs. and I was going to post it here, but SOMEONE beat me too it. LOL
It's amazing what we all "thought" we knew about the infectious nature of the bites of some lizard species.

Looks like we all got different links too LOL

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn8331.html

Ciao,
Rick

I agree that it makes no sense...it's not so much that I volunteer for the hit, but more that I don't worry about it or go to great lengths to avoid it. Using my above example of the ATBs (when I have to remove them) - sure, I could make a point of donning gloves and long sleeves, or even doing everything without touching the snakes (what fun is that, lol). Instead, I reach in, avoid their initial strike and gently grasp them. I coax them to release the perch and let them move freely. Most are fine, but there are others that at some point will come to the realization that they haven't bitten me yet. It really does seem like an afterthought, too, lol. a quick shot to the hand or forearm and they are happy. I like happy snakes
Seriously, though, the more serious the bite, the less likely I am to just take it...I have never let my bloods get me. They were hook only for a long time & a few of them still are.
As far as the article - don't go discounting the septic nature of monitor bites...that hasn't gone away. I am also inclined to think that if they are venomous, the effectiveness of the delivery system is probably on par with that of heloderms: they have to chew on you a bit to really get things happening

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Rick, I have mixed feelings about that one, lol. I agree with the statements, but I don't necessarily think a keeper is wrong to let himself get bitten. Personally, aside from hots and a few special cases, I've never worried about it. I take a minimal stress approach when doing routine maintenance; and will generally support, rather than control. I freehandle many snakes that I know will bite me. only in rare circumstances will I "gear up". and in those cases, a long sleeve shirt doesn't cut it. yes, I have multiple hooks & am proficient with them - but they are not always practical from a time or labor standpoint. (ever try to get a large ATB of a perch using hooks, lol)

Exactly.

I've used gloves, and especially with the smaller animals like tokays, I don't really feel comfortable using them because I can't really "feel" the animal in my hand. With gloves heavy enough to withstand a good bite from those lizards, they're also going to have to be really thick. It'd be real easy to accidentally squeeze the animal too hard and hurt it.

And in reality, I've only been bitten three times at work that I can think of. Once by a tokay (superficial), once by a prehensile tailed skink (let go right away, nothing a band aid couldn't fix), and once (barely) by an over-excited leopard gecko at feeding time. When was the last time you wore gloves to handle a leo? lol

As far as wild snakes go, I dont' know anyone who does a fair amount of field herping that hasn't been bitten. The first, and worst time, was last year when I was helping in a trail restoration project with a group of scouts. They freaked out about a ~12" garter snake and started throwing rocks at it, so I picked it up to get it out of the way. It was perfectly calm until a kid came up behind me a hit it with a glove....then it got mad and bit me. Accidents happen.

All those symptoms sound like pure allergic reaction to me. You are most likely allergic to the proteins present in your monitor's saliva now. I would take every precaution to not get bitten again by that particular animal. If you do get bitten again by that monitor, take your epinephrine and go straight to the hospital without waiting for onset of symptoms, because next time your reaction may kill you! You could have taken a dozen hits from that animal before becoming allergic, but once you've had a systemic reaction like that your body is primed for the next one. The next one will be swift and severe...

This could mean you are now allergic to other reptile bites, but not necessarily. The fact that you already have an allergy predisposes you to allergies in the first place, but this doesn't necessarily mean that the next Tokay that nabs you will cause your demise. The microbes present in the monitor's bite could also have been a factor that caused the allergic reaction...while your body was fighting off the microbes, some Chicken Little in your body's army started pointing at all the strange proteins running around. This could have happened with your next to last bite. Then with that last bite, your body's defenses thought the sky was falling when all those proteins reappeared!

You'd think if this fairly commonly kept monitor caused symptoms like this in everyone after a few bites, that there would be more papers on the subject.

When your whole body felt bruised, you were right; allergic reactions do not confine themselves to your skin, all of your organs were also 'bruised'. Scary stuff.

Oh, for god's sake this started off as an old thread...

blame it on Rick, lol, he revitalized it. personally, I rather enjoy the subject though

I've opened up older cans of worms before. LOL

I think I get what you guys are saying. I just didn't read it that way. I believe in the gentle approach also, being, if I should take a hit, I'm Not likely to run out and get a screwdriver to start prying with. I will patiently wait for them to let go. But at the same time, if I am reaching in, and receiving aggressive stances, and hissing, I am going to take what ever precautions I need to. Getting bit don't exactly feel good. Well, not to me any way.

BTW.......Did that prehensile tailed skink get a good latch on you? LOL I got bit by one a few years back. He got my pinky while changing water. He lunged from under his hide so quick, I could not even react. Jaws like a freakin pit bull. He held on for like 5 minutes, just crushing, and chomping, then a good shake, and when the skin peeled off, he was happy and let go. Actually the worst lizard bite I've ever had. Hurt like the dickens.


Ciao,
Rick

The article lists Iguania as one family that may have venom.
My brief introduction to the evolution of venom in reptiles is that it serves to begin digestion of the prey. Why would an herbivorous Iguana iguana need venom?

And in the article Agamid lizards (Bearded Dragons) are referred to as Iguania. Is this taxonomically correct? This seems contrary to my education.

As far as I know Pogonas are considered Agamidae.