Chris Brown, Formerly of BA Reptiles

Back in December of 2009, I contacted Chris Brown at BA Reptiles about a male blackback butter he had listed for sale on his website, after doing my homework here on Fauna and finding only good remarks about him. We agreed on a price and shipping date. Unfortunately, the snake arrived dead. Since I was at work and my husband was at home to accept the package, my husband called me when he arrived to say he had arrived dead. I told my husband to immediately take pictures and log into my email account and send the pics to Chris, which he did. I called Chris once I arrived home, and took and sent further pics upon Chris‘s request, and Chris then agreed that I needed to be compensated. He offered a larger male butter, but I was specifically after a blackback. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, and I should have taken the replacement offered, but I did not. I offered to wait until his 2010 babies hatched, and perhaps get a blackback butter from one of those, to which Chris agreed.

After much checking in with him from time to time via email over the course of the next few months, I finally spoke to Chris on the phone, in which case he said that he had lost all of his animals to a fire. He said that once his insurance money came through, he would reimburse me. I have checked a few times to see if that money had been collected by him, to which the responses were no.

I emailed him last on February 25, 2011 to again check on the status of his reimbursement, but have not received any response. I have tried calling him as well, and have received no answer and no return call.

I hesitate to name him a “bad guy”; I really do not know at this point if he truly lost everything to a fire and is really not getting reimbursed by his insurance company, or if he decided to get out and didn’t want to make this right. Perhaps my compassion for his situation has made me more patient than I should have been, but I was trying to put myself in his shoes and maybe that was my own mistake. However, my patience is now beginning to wear thin, and I am wondering if I am ever going to get the $525.00 I paid him. My own personal business sense tells me not to spend money that someone has paid for a snake until the snake is safely in their hands, alive and well; apparently Chris did not do this, however, since he wasn’t willing to do a refund when the snake arrived DOA, but preferred to do some type of replacement. While I understand that each breeder has their own preferred methods, and he did in fact offer another male butter, he should also understand that I was after a specific snake; that’s why I was willing to pay $500.00 plus shipping for an outstanding animal rather than the typical $350 most male butters were selling for at the time.

The emails between us are attached below.

Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:23:42 -0800
From: pythonpassion@charter.net
To: ba_reptiles@hotmail.com
Subject: Male Butter 1

Hello. I am contacting you about Male Butter 1 (the blackback one) that you have posted on your website. How much would shipping be to 37803? Your listed price of $500 is about my max, but if shipping isn't too much more, then I could maybe come up with enough.

Thanks!
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- Chris Brown <ba_reptiles@hotmail.com> wrote:

=============

how bout i just sell him to you for 525.00 shipped

---- BA Reptiles <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
Hello just checking to see if you got my email on the butter male you were
asking about


------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 10:33 PM -0500
Subject: Re: Re:

Yes, I got your email today. I work until 5 and couldn't check it until I
got home today.

The total cost with shipping certainly sounds reasonable to me. Do you use
FedEx for shipping or some other method? I would prefer FedEx if that's a
possibility.

Also, just have a couple more questions, but otherwise am ready to go ahead and purchase him:
What's his current weight?
How old is he? (Approx. age is fine if that's all you have, an exact hatch
date would be appreciated if you have it.)
What type of prey is he feeding on (i.e. mice or rat pups; live, pre-killed, frozen/thawed)?
How often is he feeding (every 5 days, every 7 days, etc.)?
Any other info you have on him that you feel might be important (in case I
missed something I should probably know haha).

I don't mean to bombard you with questions, but I've learned to ask during
the sale rather than after, as I typically get very slow, if any, responses
after I've already bought one.

Also, what method of payment can you take? I have an account with PayPal
already (this email address) if you want to send the payment request there,
or if you can accept credit/debit cards without PayPal, I can do that too.

Thank you,
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
ok ill try to get all the questions...fed ex 155 grams live large mice 1st
week of sept born would rather take cc over phone less in fees and all other
questions can be answserd that way as well.... i think that was
everything....im at work so if this works let me know and can wrap him up
tomarrow
thanks
chris

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 11:47 PM -0500
Subject: Re: Re:

That sounds fine. I work M-F 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. eastern time, so you won't be
able to reach me over the phone during those hours. But my number is
865-454-8554.

After checking the overnight lows in my area this week, I was hoping you
might be able to ship him tomorrow (provided I've paid you) since the
overnight low is supposed to be 47. All other nights this week are supposed
to get down to around 32, give or take. If you can call me this evening,
I'll still be up for another half hour or so. If not, you can give me a
call tomorrow anytime after 5 p.m.

Thanks!
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
sorry but it will haave to be tomarrow when i call at work till 6am ill
call u after 5 thanks for your business

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

Once on the phone with him, I made my payment with a CC. Chris was not able to ship that Tuesday due to work, so we waited for a bit longer. Finally, we seemed to find a suitable night to ship:

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Sun, Dec 13, 7:28 PM -0800
Subject: RE: Re:

Hey, Monday might be a good night to ship. 39 overnight low for you, and 45 overnight low for me. My hubby is home all day everyday, so there would be someone here to accept the package.

Thanks,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

ok he will go out yomarrow

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

He shipped the snake out on Monday, December 14th, and it arrived dead the following morning. This next email is the one I had my husband send, along with the following pics:

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 10:46 AM -0500
Subject: RE: Re

Hello Chris, the snake arrived dead. I am adding pics of the snake.
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

When I arrived home, I immediately called Chris to let him know what had happened. He had not yet checked his email, and was not aware of the situation. However, he did request more photos, of which I took, and sent him the next two emails, along with the photos:

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 6:11 PM -0500
Subject: RE: Re

Chris:

Attached are the pics you requested; I have three additional pictures that I will send in a second email; my email account won't allow me to add further pictures to this one (total attachment size would be too large).

Again, I want to stress that I am NOT angry with you; I'm more saddened by the circumstances than anything else.

He is a truly beautiful animal and I really wish he had survived the trip.

Regards,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com








------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 6:13 PM -0500
Subject: More Pictures

Here are the additional pictures.
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

After checking his emails, he responded:

I will be home later tonite and will get u squared away and make it right with u

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

---- BA Reptiles <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
This is the male I can replace the doa for. He is 435 grams so a lot bigger
than the other male.



Thanks

Chris

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Wed, Dec 16, 3:58 PM -0800
Subject: Re: replacement butter male

Chris:

I really prefer a blackback. But here's a couple of options:

1) We can just do a refund.

2) If you plan to breed more butters this coming season, and think you might produce another blackback male (maybe out of a clutch of the same parents as the DOA?), I am willing to wait until then, and apply the credit there.

I have plans for future crosses that includes a blackback, and why I'm a bit insistent here. I sincerely hope I'm not being too much of a pain the backside, but I'm trying to come up with a solution that might help both of us. I am open to other suggestions as well if you have any.

Regards,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
i will do the credit and get u what u want if thats ok with u

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

That works. Please don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the offer, but am really looking for a blackback. The replacement you offered is a very nice looking boy, but unfortunately not what I'm looking for.

Thank you so much and again, I'm sorry if I am being a pain,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

I waited until close to egg-laying and/or hatching season before contacting him again, figuring it wouldn’t do much good to try before that.

-----Original Message-----
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons
[mailtoythonpassion@charter.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:49 PM
To: bareptiles@bright.net
Subject: Re: replacement butter male

Chris:

Just checking in. I've been checking your website regularly, so I know you
don't have any butters listed yet, just wondering how the season's going for
them. Any ovs or lays yet that look promising for a clutch of butters?

Hope everything is going well for you! I noticed your list of ball pythons
for sale on fauna as well, and it looks like you're still doing great! Best
wishes for the season!

Regards,
Pamela Trentham
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- BA Reptiles <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:

=============
I haven't forgot u. I have 1 butter clutch so far just waiting still 30 days
or so away

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Sat, Jun 12, 4:06 PM -0400
Subject: RE: replacement butter male

Any butter babies yet? If you have pics, too, that would be great, even if they aren't ready to leave yet.

Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- "bareptiles@bright.net" <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:
=============
nothing yet sorry

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

-----Original Message-----
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons
[mailtoythonpassion@charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:19 PM
To: bareptiles@bright.net
Subject: RE: replacement butter male

Any news? A possible clutch coming or due to hatch?

--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

---- BA Reptiles <bareptiles@bright.net> wrote:
=============
2 more baking so we will see what pops out

At this point, we spoke on the phone, and this is the conversation in which he stated he’d lost everything to a fire, and that he would reimburse me once he received the compensation from his insurance company.

------Original Message------
From: Python Passion Captive Bred Ball Pythons <pythonpassion@charter.net>
To: "BA Reptiles" <bareptiles@bright.net>
Date: Tue, Oct 19, 6:43 PM -0400
Subject: RE: replacement butter male

Chris:

Just wondering if you had heard anything back from the insurance company yet?

Thanks,
Pam
--
Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:39 AM, bareptiles@bright.net wrote:

no im sorry we havent

----------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless mobile phone

2/25/2011:
Chris:

Just checking in to see if you've heard anything yet, or if the insurance company has given a date where they might be reimbursing.

Thanks,
Pam

Python Passion
Captive Bred Ball Pythons
www.pythonpassion.com

I tried calling around 1:00 pm today as well, and still did not get a response, as he did not answer my call. I left a message, but he has not returned my call. I fully intend to send him an email letting him know about this thread, and a link to it. I am not sure how much good this thread will or will not do; if Chris is completely out of selling snakes, he may not be worried about his reputation as a snake breeder at this point. However, it might be better if he tried to resolve this in case he ever decides to get back into snakes. I would just like to re-open the lines of communication, as it has been decent before now; he always answered my emails and returned all calls promptly in the past. I would really just like to have my money back so we can both put this behind us and move forward.

Email to him with a link to this thread has been sent.

I do hope this gets resolved.

Well I can tell you he did have a fire. Also can tell you Chris still cares about his name. Chris works about 12-14 hours a day so I am sure you are just catching him at a bad time. I would either try texting him or wait for this weekend. He is a good friend of mine so I believe he will make it right one way or another. But just to give some info on him he isn't a bad guy in my book. But lets see if he don't respond to you I will try to get ahold of him for ya.

Thanks much! At least I do know the fire was the truth.

I don't really want to name him a bad guy, so I didn't in the subject when I posted this. I really don't think he is a bad guy, just got caught up in a really sucky situation. What has frusterated me the most was he didn't even respond to emails, which could be done any time he wasn't working. I gave him a week after my last email in which to answer before posting this thread. Any other time, he has gotten back to me within 24 hours (perhaps 36 at most), which I consider a reasonable amount of time. But suddenly I've gotten nothing. As I said, at most I'd just like to re-open the lines of communication; hopefully he can give me an update as to where he stands regarding his insurance claim, and perhaps an estimated time of reimbursement.

Still no response from Chris.

he did have a bad fire in snake room it was even on local news. He lost everything from the look of the blaze. He is not lying to you if that makes you fell better. I hate being lied to so figure it would help a little.