Howlin' Gale Dragons

Thank you kelli, that is, again, the reason i posted this, weather it was the right thing to do or not. I also could post the angry e-mails sent to me, but im choosing not to because i dont think nicole is a bad person. I just dont think the way she handled this by getting defensive was the best way. Im the customer, and everyone knows the saying, and its not "the customer is always lying". I didnt even want anything other than to point it out to her and she accused me of putting her in with another dragon and letting it happen, which I can assure you did not happen. The photo I took of the toe was immediately following unpacking and inspecting her.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Neither one of them noticed the toe nip in the photo.

The facts do not change, sending that pic prior to accepting payment is showing the customer exactly what he or she will recieve. the pic was an honest representation of the dragon shipped.

All Aaron had to say is I dont want that dragon do you have another. he accepted the dragon in the pic and was shipped what he asked for.

Again, the nip was sent in a picture post payment, and honestly after multiple photos that I inspected closely, and attached in the previous posts, I didnt inspect that one sent after payment. I had no reason to. Nicole was physically with the dragon and she missed it. Im not saying it was intentional and that is not the reason this thread is posted. If the initial pictures had shown the nip, i would have said just that.

Ed it is perfectly simple.

Pre sales pictures = no nip.

One post sale picture = nip

The breeder is claiming the postsale pictures does not have a nip, the breeder is maintaining that the beardy did this to itself during shipping and was not nippeda the point of sale or shipment.


To me at least it's perfectly clear who is full of it and who is not. That beardy was shipped with a nipped toe, end of.

First off I noticed that the pic in question that has the circled toe is actually addressing the second toe and from the close up pic it is clearly the last toe missing the tip.

Second, I forgot what else I was going to comment about. Stay tuned........

Aaron shouldn't have to apologize as much as he did, he called her out.
I agree with KelliH

Well I have to agree with Kelli on this one too. Nicole I am sure you are a wonderful breeder, you look to have lovely dragons but lets face it when it comes to working with beardies then tail/toe nips are just a part of life. It does not make you a bad breeder at all for it to happen to. I had this exact thing happen to me when I was selling one of my red babies, I had it housed with only one other beardie and it was fine up until the morning that I shipped it out. I was in a hurry when packaging him up, sent him out and the buyer complained to me once he recieved it that it had a tail nip. Being that it was paired with only one other beardie still did not make me doubt the buyer, even without a picture that does look like a toe nip to me. I immediately apologized and either offered for him to send back the beardie for a full refund or I would paypal over a refund of $25 dollars. He immediately took the refund which was better for all of us and was happy and went on his way. I'm telling you as a breeder it was well worth the $25 dollars not to have my name tossed in mud on here. The fact is I doubt you can house all your beardies seperate and these things happen, you should have just bit the bullet and made the refund immediately, the doubt that it chewed on itself in shipping is bigger than the doubt that it could of happened in your care.

Now going beyond that. Aaron I don't fault you for having a beef and not being completely satisfied as that is some wad of change to spend on a beardie. I think anyone that knows what it's like to dump huge amounts of money on a lizard and then not get what exactly you wanted is a huge dissapointment, being that this happened not to long ago with a big time beardie breeder does sting, and it went way beyond a nipped toe. You still need to be careful Aaron when making a complaint against someone on the BOI, I am pretty sure you didn't know exactly what it was about but you can't take back this thread and it will stay with Nicole here on this forum forever. I had someone that traded some leopard geckos for one of my red beardie babies years ago. After a year and them never once contacting me they actually came on here without my knowledge and said that I sold them normal beardies at best that never colored up. This will stay with my name forever even though I had explained that beardie colors change alot in the first couple of years, they may possibly not even color up to their parents standards and it even has alot to do with the care like heat, lighting and feeding that lends to their colors, but still they chose to come here. Unfortunately this BOI can be a blessing and a curse, a blessing for warning against flat out crooks and thieves but then it can also mark up the names of those who are good breeders and some people abuse that. I think Aaron you probably could have given a day or two more for Nicole to have reached you (some people don't sit on their computer all day and though she could have made it right immediately I think she would have come around if given the chance. I honestly think it would make her look better if she did still. All my opinion though, take it what it is.

All I am going to say is that is not a toe nip in the picture he keeps posting on the wood I zoomed in VERY close and the toe with the nail clearly is there and stops a tad over the knot I check my dragons prior to shipping and there where no nips then either. Due to this over reaction and bashing of my good name all dragons shipped from this day forward will have pictures taken so I have proof that can not be denied in any manor. Aaron attacked me on email and posted a BOI just because I didn't answer two emails right away, the funny part I answered every other one before it I was out with my grand father at a classic car show (We have a 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 Conv) and he and I enjoy to get away and relax. Instead of Aaron picking up the phone and calling and asking he just starts slamming me.

I'm sorry Kendra but this time I won't come around and I know I am totally right the dragon did not have a toe nip I looked at the piece of wood and the exact spot in the picture is there on the wood it's a tiny knot no woods perfect I just placed the dragon badly on it. Also his slamming me accusing me of purposely placing the foot on my hand so he can't see it is 100% a lie the dragon was squirming all over I was lucky a few pictures of her on my hand actually came out good but for someone to knit pick every tiny thing to try to make me look bad that is an insult and a very harsh one. I have no complaints at all other then this guy he acted like a 5 year old having a tantrum over a toy not once did he email me in a non accusing way right off the bat it was hostile. He also threatened me in an email to share his story with a lot of breeders he is simply off the gun and out to ruin my reputation

These are all exact quotes from emails

"I know many people in the reptile world and I will gladly share this story with them "

He was never ignored like he claimed I went to a car show for oh maybe 4-5 hours?

"Had you not ignored me, i would have never gone to the BOI. I'm sorry that you feel its appropriate to do that to a customer. "

And what really gets me mad is he dose not refer to her as a Dragon or pet he refers to her as a

"Sub Standard Product"

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

What you have is a case of buyers remorse.

Why? Aaron's resone for selling his Redtail boa....

I was also just layed off, and I cant afford to keep her.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=134276

Dusty Jones

Nicole, no way was I stating that you did this on purpose I am VERY sure if their was a prior nip it was without you knowledge. I guess my post in general was trying to say that sometimes as a breeder you have to bend. Who knows, no offense to Aaron but since we don't know him maybe he got the beardie and immediately put him in a cage with another previous beardie who lived there and was territorial and bit your beardie (big no, no not to quarantine new reptiles). Could this have possibly happened only Aaron knows and it comes to his word against yours. You say you checked over the beardie very good before shipping and I believe you but the one picture does look a tad suspicious (you say it can't be because the nail is still there, but even in his new picture the toe and nail are still intact just the toe is bitten pretty bad, could possibly lose circulation and lose that toe.

Fact is I agreed that he should have called or given you more time to answer emails before running here. If this is the worse that you get accused of Nicole then rest easy a toe nip is not very bad in this hobby, but like I said sometimes $25 dollars is worth not dealing with this. I don't feel like you would have to take detail pictures of every lizard that ships out your door but if you have a customer that has this complaint in the future and you have to eat $25 dollars then if ever I was to sale to that same customer in the future then I would definately have my detail pics of every digit on that beardie with the date on it for my own protection. This is just friendly advice from someone that has been breeding and selling for over 10 years.