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Old 06-20-2006, 12:40 PM   #1
Sherri - LCRC
Corucia zebrata alfredschmidti

If anyone is interested in the scientific study that Brian & I accomplished on this subject, we have posted on Fauna Classifieds in the newly created Scientific Journal section of this website. Once you get there & click it on, scroll to the top of the page. As far as I know, it is the most comprehensive work ever done on the description of Corucia zebrata zebrata -vs- Corucia zebrata alfredschmidti.

This, of course, came up with some pictures that Kisha posted on a pair of 3 year old twins that she adopted. I stated that I was 95% sure she had these two little gems on her hands but to Kisha... hate to ask you this, but, if you can post one more close-up profile pic of the head I can tell you for sure. Alfredschmidti are larger, have a distinct black sclera, almost always have an aqua - turquoise colored head, a bright yellow color around the ear openings, a brilliant yellow under &/or around the chin & a very prominent nose scale that seems to be completely unique to alfreds. They are, I think, the most strikingly beautiful of Corucia though they are ALL beautiful in their own way.

Alfredschmidti's also seem to be more difficult to pair up due to temperament & a more aggressive nature. They are also more difficult to breed for whatever reason. I think environment almost has to be precise. Out of the 7 adults I have had for 3+ years, we've only managed to produce one baby. &, what a baby she is! Tiki weighed in at birth a whopping 172 grams November 17th of last year. (Coruia zebrata zebrata averages about 50-70 grams normally at birth)

We'll get into more of this later for those interested.

Sherri
 
Old 06-20-2006, 02:00 PM   #2
Kisha
I read the paper, but I'm still not sure of the identification points. I can't seem to see the sclera in any of my skinks, and I'm not sure which scales are the parietal. Do you have a representative picture you could post to show us the specific characteristics? Here is the head profile you asked for.

Kisha
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Old 06-20-2006, 03:55 PM   #3
Sherri - LCRC
I've been pulling my hair out today to try to post pictures! In uploading I keep getting booted off & then have to start all over. This is driving me nuts. You most certainly, 100%, do have Corucia zebrata alfredschmidti. I will tell you though that the C/A or biometric ratio that we use with sexing is not as accurate with these guys. I'm not sure why but we've had mistakes that we learned about later. What a beautiful skink, Kisha!

I'm going to try this in writing until I can see what's up with having so much trouble with pictures. In laymans terms & this is the way that I write & am more comfortable with. The black sclera is something that looks like your skink has black eyeliner on to bring out the eyes which to me is one of their dominating features. If you look at your other Corucia, there's often the yellow followed by the dark pupil of the eye. I don't see as much yellow in this pic but he does have a band that runs from his chin to his ear opening to the back of the neck. It's a little hard because he's in a molt but these are some of the things I look at. That turquoise color of his head is also unique only to alfredschmidti as well as the angled banding of the scales & a cream colored rostral scale that I can't really see but it is not necessary at this point. Instead of the Solomon Island archipelago, alfreds hail from New Guinea. I would suspect that their larger size & different coloration has to do with their range, not necessarily climate, being the factor. If you would ask me whether alfredschmidti could be paired with Corucia zebrata zebrata to produce viable offspring, we don't know. We haven't tried that but I have an older single female that I desperately need to figure out something with. She & my lone alfred male attempt to kill each other everytime i've tried to bring them together for a supervised introduction so that's a no go period. Brian will be back Thursday if I haven't helped & maybe he can give you the answers you're looking for or more specifics. He's just alot more technical than I am. I'm going to try with the pictures again, keep your fingers crossed!

Sherri
 
Old 06-20-2006, 05:12 PM   #4
Kisha
Wow! What great news! I had no idea about the sub species, now I have another "project" to learn about. You mentioned the yellow chin band and cream colored rostral scale, what do you think the diffrence is with this female that also has a lot of yellow. I'm just trying to identify the characteristics that you described.

Kisha
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Old 06-20-2006, 05:54 PM   #5
Sherri - LCRC
I love this! Unfortunately, I can't get my chores done being on the computer so much today! I was going to bring up this lovely female earlier referring to one of your WAY earlier pics but I was confused as to what thread she was on! Okay, look at her eyes first, notice that what normally appears as white in humans, is a yellowish to greenish color with the dark pupil. If you look at what I identified as alfredschmidti (let's call him Cza at this point, I always have to pause to spell it correctly! LOL) There is NO yellow graduating into the dark pupil. I think they have the most beautiful eyes leaning towards more of an almond/Asian feature. Next, the color of the head in Corucia zebrata zebrata (Czz at this point). Czz can vary with this but never have the turquoise/aqua color that's present in Cza. What you asked about the yellow is a difference between golden yellow & a brilliant yellow. I know, I know. Czz have more of a gold tone to it leaning towards a mustard yellow. Cza has yellow that looks like the crayola crayon marked yellow or sunshine. Being that your twins are so young, it's hard to guideline you to the tremendous size difference between Cza & Czz. If you're interested, patient, meticulous, &, brave (lol!) in this, start counting head scales between this beauty & Cza & note the tremendous difference in the two. I don't know if you'll remember this, but there was a Corucia Conservation Alliance (now defunct) created by a member of that 'other' skink forum who published head scalation photos of Czz & Cza. We copied this, enlarged it but could never 'see' what the author diagrammed. (his name escapes me) I finally said to Brian that I think Corucia head scales are much like the fingerprints of humans where no two are alike. The exception to this would be that Czz appear to have more head scales than Cza. Kind of curious considering Cza are so much larger even in head size. I'm dying to show you mine, especially Tiki. Jade, my older unpaired female Cza looks almost identical to the male (I think) that you posted.

On this note, time to go feed my kids (2 legged & 4!). My daughter even put her baby ducks in the bathtub to shampoo them....don't call animal control on me...time for mom to intervene!! LOL! I really do live in a zoo sometimes!

I'll try to check in later.

Sherri
 
Old 06-20-2006, 10:17 PM   #6
Kisha
I totally understand! I've been trying to re-mud and paint a wall in the midst of all my excitement. I have been downstairs staring at my skinks to see if I can figure out the difference, there is no way I'm going to try to count scales. Those pictures I took put me in deffinate peril. I think I see what you mean, though, about the different yellows and the turquoise head color. I always counted that difference to regional color variations like all the others. Did you see the thread on the "other" board about a "leucistic" PTS? I have always been a bit leery of naming a color morph that may just be normal variation. But you know how people are. I'm just happy to have them breeding, I don't really care what color they are.

Back to something you said earlier when we were discussing the sick twin, you asked if he had raised scales or halfmoon shaped ridges. His scales are not particularly raised, but they do have the half moon ridges that you described. I have seen this before with 2 of my others that I acquired in not very good shape. I assumed it was due to poor shedding, as they were in better conditions the shedding took care of itself but the ridges remained. The little guy, we named him Zeke, has always been kept in as high a humid environment as I can muster. He has always had trouble shedding, is that what causes this or is it something else? He seems to be enjoying his new, now semi-permenant, home I'll keep you posted. Now I have to go bathe my dogs.

Kisha
 
Old 06-21-2006, 08:38 AM   #7
Sherri - LCRC
It's really not just color but I do understand what you mean about 'designer' morphs. I too, am really leery & skeptical about stuff like that.

A couple of things. One is that I wrote that alfredschmidti comes from New Guinea... I don't know what I was thinking other than Brian & I, before the research, always referred to ours as the New Guinea 7. They're actually from the islands of Bougainville & Buka which is now independent from New Guinea but still part of the Solomon archipelago. To make it simple, we just call them either alfredschmidti or North Solomon skinks.

The second thing is that Brian arrived home late last night & got a chance to view your pics this morning. He thinks your healthier twin is female. When doing the C/A, he/she falls right on the borderline but he feels the head shape looks more indicative to him of female. I disagree so that's where we stand! I still thinks he's a male especially when you described his personality. Unless gravid, North Solomon females are very sweet. My male, on the other hand, is a beast!! I was worried for awhile about whether he would be a danger to any offspring that might be born because he tends to lean towards the 'psycho' side. Thank goodness my fear was unfounded. He's a wonderful parent & very protective of Tiki & his harem!

The half moon ridges we've discussed has perplexed me. I always felt it was a humidity issue or, perhaps, because most of mine with this condition came from a place of either being malnourished as imports or bad husbandry on the part of previous owners. I do know that the condition is irreversible though. You can improve it slightly by using a natural aloe vera gel (with no alcohol or other chemicals added) Does your healthier twin also have these ridges?

Keep me posted on Zeke & good luck with your drywall work! Two things I hate, roofing & sheetrock stuff! (especially sanding down the mud) Textured walls now look very good to me!

Have a nice day,

Sherri
 
Old 06-21-2006, 09:44 AM   #8
Kisha
Nope, the healthy twin does not have these ridges, but has never had any trouble shedding. This is part of the reason he/she is such a terror, I have no reason to handle him/her. I think I said before I have been using a "hands off" approach to minimize stress and elicit more natural relationships between my groups. It seems to have worked, but now the breeding pairs are crazy aggressive protecting the babies and the babies are pretty shy. But, they are all so healthy that I rarely have to intervene. I just replace food and clean cages and water dishes, no unnecessary examination Thanks for the idea about the aloe, for a while I was putting things on Zeke's skin to see if it helped his shedding, like mineral oil and antibiotic ointment. Not much help, by the way. I'll try the aloe for a while and see what happens.

Take Care,

Kisha
 
Old 10-18-2006, 02:59 PM   #9
seishin
Kisha,

Sherri and Brian just confirmed for me a couple of weeks ago that I have (at least) three alfredschmidti, including two parents and their year-old baby (I'm pretty sure is a male). I would be interested in trading with others who have alfredschmidti in order to keep from inbreeding mine. Any other Corucia zebrata alfredschmidti owners out there?

-- Celeste
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:36 AM   #10
Kisha
Hi Celeste- I so wish you were closer! I seem to have to male C.z.a. that are thriving apart, but taking up much space due to separate cages. I need to get them both in to a breeding situation soon, but I am reluctant to ship these guys. Good luck with yours, though.

Kisha
 

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