Lee Watson Swap Bust

Ok, I don't know how many of you attend the Lee Watson sawp in Streamwood IL, but last sunday the Dept of Ag and IL Dept of Natural Resources had a sting operation of sorts and busted some people.

They walked in at about 11am and declared who they were and that all exits had an officer at them and anyone caught trying to leave would face criminal charges. They filed the public out the front first, checking everyone's stuff and then made the vendors stay until they were cleared to leave.

I was up front when it happened and I looked around and some people instantly turned white as sheets cos they knew they were in trouble &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

I was curious earlier that morning why so much white trash was walking around with very expensive digicamcorders, as it turns out they were all plain clothes officers. tee hee. I was just hacked off b/c I didn't get my three dollars worth for the admission and I really felt bad for the guys who travelled far and set up their stuff, only to lose money on the show.

If any vendors post here that were there, I am curious to what happened to some of the guys who had illegal stuff. Fill me in if you can.

At this point in time Bill, there is not much to tell. People have tickets and court dates. There will not be much happening until they get their appearances in front of a judge. I only deal with CB non native so I was cleared in 30 seconds. Others were not so lucky.

Many animals were seized by different agencies under different laws and jurisdictions. It was a mess. Most of the officers present could not identify most animals and were not even versed on the laws they were there to enforce. Lee and I spent several hours correcting them on what is and what is not an endangered species as well as arguing the Constitutional rights of those of us being detained against our will (and not even allowed to go to the bathroom for hours). I lost much valuable time and money driving from Detroit to Chicago and back to make no money.

To add to your info above, the Federal Food and Drug Administration was also present to enforce the 25 year old 4" turtle law which to my knowledge has never been enforced in that state. It is very selective enforcement. We will all be doing what we can to help support Lee as we have for a decade, but who knows what will happen long term because of this? A very similar incident at the Indianapolis show a couple years ago did permanent damage to that shows vendor roster and attendence.

I am not saying that I feel that people ticketed for breaking the law deserve a break. Whether right or wrong we should all follow the laws while trying to eliminate the bad ones through the appropriate channels. I will say this though, these agencies were in some cases creating laws as they went along that do not exist. They seized animals that they have no right to. With the exception of the head conservation officer and the state herpetologist, they could not tell the difference between my albino reticulated python and a red eared slider. My one simple complaint is this: IF YOU ARE GOING TO ENFORCE LAWS, KNOW WHAT THOSE LAWS ARE AND KNOW WHAT THE ANIMAL IS THAT THE LAW CONCERNS. Very simple and I think not asking too much. Evan Stahl <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

I overheard someone saying that the dept of ag took a large albino burm from a guy that was standing outside of the building. He wasn't a vendor or anything,

In IL dept of ag will have you believe that its illegal to own a snake over 6 feet long. In reality that only applies to licensees and people who are in the retail of animals, ect. The private sector is just not allowed to own a 'dangerous' reptile. IL supreme court has determined that a snake 15 feet long is dangerous, so that animal could be taken, but anything below that length is actually not illegal to own by the private citizen.

Unless I was lied to by the head of the dept of natural resources last year, then that is the case. I hate the dept of ag.

They seized some baby Bearded Dragons saying that it was necessary to have an "aquaculture" license to sell them. For those of you who are wondering, yes that means breeding aquatic animals. What does that have to do with a desert agamid from Australia? Who knows? Evan Stahl

Evan,
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;I agree with you completely!! &nbsp;As alot of you know I am a police officer and I feel ignorance of the law is no excuse. &nbsp;I also think that applies to police officers being ignorant to the laws they are enforceing. &nbsp;That is a shame a dissapointing with proper training they would have known which way to go to get out of the way.
&nbsp;I also spoke with Mr. Watson. &nbsp;The funny thing is from what I gathered from him it was over a ploice officer selling a few $3 turtles. &nbsp;I was also told the police officer (under cover) made the comment, "Well if I don't sell these I am going to take them home and flush them down the toilet." &nbsp;Therefore, as they should alot of fellow herpers bought them. &nbsp;
Even though I am police officer. &nbsp;I think that is Entrapment to a certian degree and a ####ty thing to do.
That's my two cents anyway!!
Gilbert Thompson

If an undercover police officer actually said that he needed to sell those turtles or else he'd take them home to flush down the toilet, it's not entrapment to a certain degree, it is ENTRAPMENT!

Entrapment is when an officer says or does something that encourages a person to committ an act that they would not otherwise have done. &nbsp;By that standard definition, the undercover officer in question entrapped the people who purchased those turtles, and they should not be fined or have any other ramifications brought upon them. &nbsp;

I am ALL FOR proper policing of the herp industry (and all others, as well), but if THAT is the type of thing that is going on there in IL, not only should the pople involved be given a walk on anything for which they were cited, but the govt. officials involved owe Mr. Watson a HUGE appology.

Fat chance!

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

The scenario you're discussing (flushing turtles) was actually from the previous arrest about 7 years ago. spam_Since that time, we have had no problems. spam_The bearded dragon ticket was issued for lack of an aquaculture permit, although we have a letter from Rodney W. Horner, Aquaculture Coordinator, stating that they are only interested in indigenous animals. spam_So if there is not a wild population of beardeds in IL, I guess we're all right without it.

Thanks a lot for all the support everybody's been giving us and we'll see you on October 5! spam_Same place for the last 11 years.

Sorry I forgot to sign my name at the bottom of my last post.

Lee Watson
Lee Watson's Reptile Swap

Lee, just exactly were these officials looking for ? &nbsp;It seems unbelievable that they would enter a legal premise and then try to figure out what they felt should or should not be confiscated. What happens to the animals, and who burdens the responsibility of loss? This is frightning to say the least. I would attempt to peruse legal remedies by suing them personally. I dont know how far you would get, but if these individuals are making up these legal decisions as they go along, then I think they are going above and beyond what should be considered normal. VERY DEPRESSING. JERRY TRESSER <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

I must say this situation is very disturbing. The officials acted in a very unprofesional manner from what I gather. The officials should have showed up early before the show started and inspected the animals. But not interfere with law abiding vendors and disrupt their business. &nbsp;If I were one of the people in that show that had all my "ducks in a row" and had all paperwork correct and they still did that, you better believe that the state or whomever it was would be receiveing notice my my attorney and I would gurantee I would pursue it to the fullest extent of the law. Here in Florida Wildlife officers come to the facility of dealers, importers and pet stores to inspect their animals. They do show up at local shows and inspect animals but they do it in a profesional manner. If there is a question on an animal and it's legality, they approach the owner in private, ask to remove the animal from the table and discuss the legality and ask for proof if needed on that animal. &nbsp;They do not just walk in and shut the entire place down and start rampageing the entire show. &nbsp;As the Promoter I would have my attorney look into the legality of what they did and how they did it. &nbsp;it seems very illegal and if not illegal than very unprofesional.