Triple Moons Exotic

Originally Posted by lucille

I'm trying to get a sense of the big picture. Was this a business purchase or just an individual purchase?

Originally Posted by LauraB

Lucille, since Charlene told Andrew that she and Steph had been partners for 8 years, and that "One of our current projects right now is working with hypo ball pythons",

and also, "P.S. Im currently deployed in Afghanistan but my business partner is in PA"

... well, I assumed it was a business transaction/partnership acquisition.

I know Char and I have a bit of a confusing situation, but I'll explain as best I can. Char and I have been working on projects together for years. When she was deployed overseas a few years ago, all of her animals came here (some of you may remember that wonderful SYR/UPS issue I had - yeah, her animals). When she returns to the states in July, most of the animals will continue staying with me as she will be returning to school and we have several long term projects in the works. The Butter het Hypo and het Hypo are her animals, I have no official claim to them, just like all of the others that she sent me or purchased over the last few years, they are hers. Char consults me on purchases, what pairings we will be doing jointly, etc etc. Char is not a representative or owner of TME, but we have partnered together on projects mutually beneficial to each other.

Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

Does that make sense?

She out and out calls you a business partner. You say she is not part of your business. I'm still confused, and perhaps that might be a feeling shared by those who deal with you.

There are actual consequences in telling a third party that another is a business partner.

I can't explain it any better then I did, Lucille. Business partner was a poor choice of words on her part, but it wasn't meant to hide or otherwise confuse anything.

I say business partner because breeding ball pythons is a business to me. I guess I can see where it is confusing because Stephanie has her own business that she calls TME. I do not consider me to be part of her company nor owner/partner of TME. I only say business because of what I stated above. I buy/sell ball pythons. Now me and Stephanie have been working together for a number of years but never have I associated with TME. Does that make sense and help clarify?

I think both parties have made valid points, both identified their errors, and both should move on. I don't see any better outcome at this point than both agreeing that this could have gone over better and take the lessons learned.

Both parties are stressing over this issue and potentially harming their name while this "mystery breeder" is sitting back reading this thread and probably snickering while HE maintains a clear name.

As far as I am concerned ANDREW, CHARLENE, and STEPHANIE are all good guys/girls that either made a simple mistake or didn't cover their butts. All this havok is being caused by this mystery breeder who still cannot be man enough to identify himself and I would suggest he comes clean before being called out and ends up looking even more like a bad guy. It's one thing to admit to a mistake and another to continually hide behind it.

Originally Posted by Focal X

Both parties are stressing over this issue and potentially harming their name while this "mystery breeder" is sitting back reading this thread and probably snickering while HE maintains a clear name.

I agree!! The take-home message I got from all this is to beware of random strangers sticking their noses in where they don't belong!

I am glad to have this thread here and I would do business with any of the named parties involved, but it was enlightening to learn that someone might climb up on their highest horse and start anonymously telling me what to do.

Originally Posted by mikeyt

If you do not wish your email to be known by other parties, and do not want to be contacted by any of my colleagues for any reason regarding our future transactions then any potential sales will be terminated.

I depend on my friends to help me and guide me thru all of the garbage and drama that you can find in the industry today, and this is just a prime example

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have seen in a while....I could care less about somebody asking about me, or conferring with friends if an issue arises; BUT that is hardly an invitation or welcome for them to contact me with their opinion on our transaction...especially if they are going to hide behind a false name/email when they do it.

Maybe "Reputable Breeder" had the best of intentions when he contacted Andrew...but, really, what was the point? Can anybody reading this thread seriously say that such an anonymous email would have had a positive impact regarding their decision to sell to somebody?"
In case you haven't figured it out, RB, your intervention didn't help. For future reference, prior to stepping in on somebody's behalf, you might want to check to see if such assistance is desired...and if you feel strongly enough about the matter to become involved - sign your name.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have seen in a while....I could care less about somebody asking about me, or conferring with friends if an issue arises; BUT that is hardly an invitation or welcome for them to contact me with their opinion on our transaction...especially if they are going to hide behind a false name/email when they do it.

Maybe "Reputable Breeder" had the best of intentions when he contacted Andrew...but, really, what was the point? Can anybody reading this thread seriously say that such an anonymous email would have had a positive impact regarding their decision to sell to somebody?"
In case you haven't figured it out, RB, your intervention didn't help. For future reference, prior to stepping in on somebody's behalf, you might want to check to see if such assistance is desired...and if you feel strongly enough about the matter to become involved - sign your name.

Well said, you should have stepped in on the first page

If all this thread comes down to is "TRB" contacting Andrew, then again, why is this under my name? I am not "TRB"...I did not solicit an email from "TRB"...Their is no excuses to be made about "you gave out my private email"...It wasn't private being it can be acquired through Fauna and Kingsnake...If the email address hadn't come from me, he could have inquired on an animal you had for sale and gotten it that way...and now it's plastered all over this thread, so now the entire excuse is completely out the window...

I still maintain that I wasn't wrong in consulting two friends, and I will continue doing it. It's no different them coming here onto the BOI, other then it's a heck'uva lot more private.

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

I still maintain that I wasn't wrong in consulting two friends, and I will continue doing it. It's no different them coming here onto the BOI, other then it's a heck'uva lot more private.

Well, I understand your points Stephanie and I would feel the same about having my name put out there like this. Particularly, if I believe I did nothing wrong. To be fair, I also tried to look at it from Andrew's perspective to see why the need for the thread (in his eyes). At face value, I had a hard time seeing it just scanning the thread.

Personally, I know you are a good person to do business with and you have a great reputation thus I had a hard time understanding the actions here. I want you to understand I mean that before I give the reasons why I might understand his justification. I'm not stating I agree with it but understanding the reasoning behind the actions.

First, I think everyone here can agree that the posts about discussion of the original price point is mute. The price was given by the seller and there wasn't much discussion on it. The buyer agreed. It doesn't matter what other prices were given beforehand. The seller asked, the buyer agreed.
That should be it.

At this point and before this thread, the weights (including the discrepancies) have little bearing for a couple of reasons except for one.

First from the buyer's perspective, the difference in weights were meet with swift agreement to compensate. The buyer was satisfied with the refund.

Secondly, I'm confident that if Stephanie thought the seller was dishonest she wouldn't have attempted to purchase yet another animal from the seller. She is experienced enough and if she and Charlene both felt confident in purchasing more animals. The misrepresentation on the weights must not have been seen as a deliberate deception. Fair enough for everyone? Obviously the buyers didn't believe that it was are they wouldn't want more animals. So if the buyers are OK with what happened on this point, why should it be continually topic to hamper away at?

Now let's look at it from the seller's perspective. Yes, Andrew refunded a settlement and the buyer was happy. He did state he didn't weigh them and seemed to take the communication on face value. I say "seemed" because I think there is no doubt that he didn't actually believe it.

Just a little personal commentary on this-

Andrew, I understand sellers are subjected to all kinds of people. There are people out there that are going to try and screw you. That's a fact. All of us know this but assuming it so with little fact isn't right, In my opinion. I know you don't know the buyer(s) here and I can understand being suspicious but you yourselves admitted that you didn't weigh them. A reasonable person should give the benefit of the doubt.

Heck, you could of thought many things. "Why were they asking to buy another snake if they thought I screwed them on the weight?" Yes, one could look at it as if they are just trying get discounts. Or you could have looked at it as "Hey, they gave me the benefit of doubt that I wasn't being misrepresenting the animals purposely, why can't I give them the same?"

You could have took five minutes to check if there was any other complaints posted of similar nature. Not knowing them I can somewhat understand if you thought your weights were accurate but you admit that you didn't get actual weights. I understand your claim that you posted approximates but that really has no relevance either. You agreed to compensate.

Now, unfortunately I have to somewhat support your position now. Even if I disagree with how you handle that portion of the transaction and believe that you assumed to much, you have a right to not do business with whomever you choose. So that brings to why this thread was started and why you felt compelled.

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

If all this thread comes down to is "TRB" contacting Andrew, then again, why is this under my name? I am not "TRB"...I did not solicit an email from "TRB"...Their is no excuses to be made about "you gave out my private email"...It wasn't private being it can be acquired through Fauna and Kingsnake...If the email address hadn't come from me, he could have inquired on an animal you had for sale and gotten it that way...and now it's plastered all over this thread, so now the entire excuse is completely out the window...

I still maintain that I wasn't wrong in consulting two friends, and I will continue doing it. It's no different them coming here onto the BOI, other then it's a heck'uva lot more private.

Yes, believe you are right and it comes back to the emails posted by your anonymous friend. I understand the point that you didn't encourage or suggest the emails. Not your fault, I understand. But, I would like to point out something.

Even with the fact that I disagree how the seller handle the point of not selling anything further, he still has the right not to do business with whomever he wants. as buyer I probably would have been taken back but the thought that someone would have believed that I was trying to pull one over on them. I know you weren't. There is no reason for anyone to believe such. Obviously the seller does. I don't think it is just but I believe at the end of the transaction Andrew did believe it. If I cared, I may have had others contact him with references or offered to supply them. Personally, I wouldn't have. I would have stated my disbelief and moved on.

Because he did have this belief, wrong as it may be he stated he wasn't going to do business with either of you. He didn't state it just once.

First he stated it here-

Because of this unfavorable outcome, I have to kindly withdraw my offer to sell the cinnamon het albino male.

I wish you all the best in your breeding pursuits, and am sorry your purchase was sub satisfactory

Then he did it again,

[quote]Subject: Message about: 1.0 Breeding Ghost- Best offer takes him!

*************
NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
*************

Hello Andrew, do you have other photos of him you could send me? Would you accept $130/shipped for him?[/QUOTE]

Now, no-matter how nice he may stated, I know it still offensive, but how many times does he have to state it?


I'm still disagreeing with him on his reasoning but he believes that he was screwed and he made a choice.

Nobody has made a thread about this transaction at this point. It seems settled. Now he starts receiving these emails. While I understand again about the points of talking and consulting friends, I'm wanting to understand the reason your name is on it. The only point I can see is that the seller holds you accountable because First, he still believes he was being taken advantage of, regardless if it was unjustified. Next, He stated twice that he wasn't going to do business with either of you in two different ads. Still unjustified IMHO, but his choice. Then, he starts receiving threads from a party that names you that he is going to pay for his actions.

The emails simply weren't messages to verify you were a great person to do business with. They didn't just state that he was wrong in his assumptions.

Not only did the emails bring up weights and calling him deceptive about the ads just like people posting on threads have, (I might add again that apparently you believed he wasn't being deceptive purposely or you wouldn't have tried to purchase from him again. I trust your instincts on this.) the emails also threaten him about future business with others.

I will referenece this transaction for them to make their own descision.

That maybe why from his point of view as why this is here. Not agreeing just stating.

Setting aside everything you both agreed on before this thread took place, He was wrong for assuming way to much with the mistakes he made. The transaction is over. You were offended and from my point of view, rightfully so. You talked about it with friends and they were offended. Andrew thought he was being unfairly targeted for not wanting to do business anymore. Now, he perceives he is being attacked because of the emails and the only name he can put on it is Stephanie's because that who the anonymous poster is referencing.

There is no debate about transaction itself from the buyer or the seller. They agreed on a settlement and that is that.

Andrew, I understand you positions (I believe). I just disagree with it and would have let it go. Unfortunately for you, when you start a thread it opens the whole transaction up for discussion. Threads aren't normally a single transaction discussion either. People will reference this thread in the future and may wish to add previous or future transactions when they see your name. Personally, I think you made some awful choices in the transaction and by posting this here.

Even though I have had positive dealings with Stephanie and believe she is a good person to do business with, I hope you would think that I was fair to you in my opinion. I think I have tried to be understanding of the individual
transaction. You were a little to quick to assume Harald was friends with
Stephanie just as you were a little to quick to assume they were trying to pull a fast one on you in the transaction. It's not healthy to think everyone is out to get you. Wish you luck, in the future.