Kevin Smith - oreganus@hotmail

I have sat back and read all 66 pages of " The Saga Of Kevin vs Jeremy" and found myself laughing quite abit.
Realizing I am kicking up old dust now, I have to make a few observations.

Jeremy did prove his point and admit to allowing the snake to be shipped UPS. OK, you are man enough to face whatever penalities face you.

But, Kevin, with irrefutable proof staring at him, still denies it. { Reminds me of a certain mayor caught smoking crack on camera and still denies it while watching the tape, LOL}. After many times of saying he was through with this discussion, he only bowed out after he was proven a liar. Ironically, his last post started with " I have alot to say..................", but it was his shortest post.

Lets veiw the venomiod issue. Aside from the deceptive statements made in order to ship the snake, we have the the question of "is it still 'hot'?". Yes, it is. Why? It is a cobra, the best known snake, known largely for the ability to "hood". Does anyone think the authorities will inspect the snake for scar tissue showing a legit, or illegit surgical procedure? Trust me, they won't. The snake will be destroyed, either way. The person bitten by such a creature, venomous, or not, will be treated for envenomation by said animal, suffering huge financial disaster. If the victim is an employee of UPS, anyone that ships by way of, or even pays for shipping through UPS, will pay the damages through higher costs.

Kevin Smith sounds alot like another alias for Kevin Peters, a/k/a Mike Peters,a/k/a Mike Smith. Another connection is that All the above listed names operate out of CA and OR. Hmmmmmmm.......makes one wonder. Both have shipped UPS, both claim to be verified shippers of Delta, both are liars, both are theives, neither answer anything directly, yet prefer to dance around the subjects at hand, both prefer to divert attention from themselves to other, less important things, both claim to do venomoid surgeries themselves, both claim to have all required permits. Both are to be avoided at any and all costs.

How is one to protect oneself from falling victim to scammers like Kevin? {or whatever his name is today}?

If you strike a deal about anything over the net, protect yourself. Get NO LESS than 10 references----- out of state.
Once a price is agreed to, send the money via Western Union but do not disclose the authorization code until you have recieved the item and it matches your expectations, if a warranty is issued, wait until the warranty period is over. Anyone with a good rep will wait. If dealing with an individual, have the person physically mail you a copy of his/her drivers license, business license, breeders permit, venomous permit. This should come snail mail only. Money grams usually require ID before pick up the finances, but if busy, or a new employee is working, it can be forgotten. Having this information from the seller protects you.
If the seller refuses any of the above suggestions, it may be that there is something you are not to know. Something you should question.......


Sadly, I have learned this through expirence.


Lastly, we must all remember to police our hobby. There are enough governmental eyes watching us. Reporting anything like Kevin's actions BEFORE it happens takes some of the heat from us, the legit herper. A person in Jeremy's shoes should have alerted the authorities after Kevin stated he was sending UPS, but before the package was recieved.
Doing so would have allowed UPS to accept the shipment, and the animal be taken care of accordingly, hopefully not at the expense of the animals' life. Local police on each end of the deal would be able to handle it in a quiet manner, allowing the arrest and conviction of the idiot that sends UPS. Jeremy would have goten his money back and Kevin sent to prison.
Downside to the saga of this thread, is that now, both parties are in serious trouble and we are the target of meaner, stricter government eyes.
Thank you, Kevin and Jeremy. Your actions are going to cost everyone here more trouble.

Please, everyone: If someone offers to ship any animal illegally, refuse it and alert the police. Same goes for anyone that wants it sent that way.
To those that are still considering it, consider this: the person you are shipping to may have let the cops know what you proposed.
This is called "self policing". Who's doing it?????????????

Originally Posted by ZX11

Once a price is agreed to, send the money via Western Union but do not disclose the authorization code until you have recieved the item and it matches your expectations, if a warranty is issued, wait until the warranty period is over. Anyone with a good rep will wait. If dealing with an individual, have the person physically mail you a copy of his/her drivers license, business license, breeders permit, venomous permit. This should come snail mail only. Money grams usually require ID before pick up the finances, but if busy, or a new employee is working, it can be forgotten. Having this information from the seller protects you.
If the seller refuses any of the above suggestions, it may be that there is something you are not to know. Something you should question.......

I can see a number of problems with this. I wouldn't personally wait for funds to be paid up front before I shipped anything; I need that money for shipping and I don't want to get ripped off by a scam. I would never mail anyone a copy of my driver's license or my permits, because those things could be abused much too easily. Identity theft, anyone? I am also not keen on letting a lot of people know my home address because I am concerned about theft and also about my privacy.

So yeah, I could see a lot of people balking if a customer demanded all of those things. I would personally be highly suspicious if anyone asked for me to send them a copy of my licenses and permits, as this has been used as a scam before. There are a lot of people running around using other people's permits with their names forged on top because the people in question were unwise enough to hand out copies. I'm not willing to do that.

Tanith,

I understand what you are saying and the possible ramifications of devulging such information. Certainly, though, there is some way of being sure who it is one is dealing with. People like "Kevin" change names, addresses, phones, etc. so much it is very hard for us to keep track of them. That is the point I was trying to make, too. By requesting such information, perhaps it would scare the scammers, perhaps, too, it would affect possible sales.
Does anyone have any other ideas how to stop scams? I doubt I would submit my personal information, too, so I guess you could say I am self contradictive, but after being ripped off, I have not bought anything over the net. It is too easy for people to make a living off of free money.
So, we are back to the question; " how would one certain of whom one is dealing with?????????"