New Mountain Horned Dragon... questions.

Hello,

The fecal will be fine, just refridgerate it & it will be fine to turn in on monday morning, no problem.
Well, 61 grams & 13 inches is pretty good. She may not be eating on her own willingly just because she is still stressed out. It may take some time for her to feel completely comfortable in her surroundings.
That is fine, you can do that type of assisted feeding with your MHD, no problem. Just make sure you go way back into the throat to miss the glottis. How is she looking, her skin looking pretty good? I hope she is holding her hydration now.
I am really pulling for her!! Did you name her now?

Tracie

Yippee!
Tonight I went down to tube feed the MHD . She had a good helping of her mixture she let me put it in her mouth a little easier this time. So I decided to try a bug. I put a wax worm on my shirt ,it started to crawl past her and she snagged it. So I tried a second a few minutes later and she got that one two. I was working on a cricket when company came in and freaked her out a little. But even so thats super good news. !!
Well my girlfriend is obsessive about naming pets asap. I never rush to do that. I have had so many critters in the last 30 years that I know a name will come to me somewhere in the process. Occasionally I have named a pet sooner when it just worked out that way too. Like "Bacon" is our first pastel ball Python's name . He is our first and hopefully the beginning of our breeding team. So he's gonna bring home the bacon! Anyway scary tho it may be there is a little insight into my thinking. So the answer finally is no she nor the beardy have official names yet. Rest assured however that Sylvia will be obsessing about it totally until they are named! G.W.

That's excellent....she will start eating on her own now. 61 grams is great for WC, she'll be up to 90+ in no time. I agree that the fecal will be fine in the fridge. Make sure the vet gives you the rate to calculate the meds by weight if you get any so you can adjust it as she gains weight. They really like to perch in their "tree" and wait for the food to crawl by....that way they don't expend any more energy than necessary. By the way....on the tube feeding situation. I haven't done that with any of my lizards. Doesn't bother me with humans but I'm wierd about doing stuff like that to my animals! I don't think you'll have to go that far to get her to eat...sounds like she's on the right track! Great news! Angie

Dropped off poop at the vet, for both the Mountain and the Beardie. Don't know if she ate on her own this morning or not... my gf fed her after I went to work. She is really cute, she's getting more used to being handled.
STILL can't find the dig. camera. There is one more place to look... if it's not there we are getting a new one. We want you guess to see her. Need to take pics of everybody and post them.

Hey again,
Got the results of her fecal, and the Beardies also...

Mountain Horned Dragon...
Multiple parasites
Capillaria
Coccidia
Trichomands
Giardia
Pinworms

Bearded Dragon
Multiple parasites
Coccidia
Trichomonads
Pinworms

Ok.... so what do I do, where do I get it, how much to use for how long?
We have a tentative appt with the vet Wed. He is a herp vet, but not sure how good... have seen some herps he's treated and heard the recommendations and not sure if they were that great or if his recommendations weren't being followed we. Do I really need to see a vet even? I can look an see they have no resp. issues, the vent is nice and clean, etc... I just somehow think if we can treat the parasites ourselves it may not be worth $100 to have the vet look at them and tell us nothing new.

Hello,

I posted on your other topic as well. I just wondered if you had counts on each thing or not?
You need to weigh out the options as to what you want to treat. We are talking 3 different drugs to take for your female dragon & 3 or more for your MHD. That is alot & pretty harsh on the system.
As I said in your other thread, let me know what you decide to do & I can help you figure out what you want to do.
If your female dragon is not showing signs of sickness so much to the point that she wont eat, etc, then you don't absolutely have to take her into the vet. However, I can give you information on getting the necessary drugs. I don't condone self medicating most of the time because so much can go wrong. At least you have gotten a fecal done though so we know what they are afflicted with instead of just guessing. They can be dosed according to their weight.
Think about what you would like to do & let me know. I am sure that Angie could probably help with dosing as well. We are here to help you!

Tracie

Hi -

Mountain Horned Dragon...
Multiple parasites
Capillaria
Coccidia
Trichomands
Giardia
Pinworms


Pinworms
- Panacur (fenbendazole) 25 - 50/kg by mouth 1 x day for 4 days and repeat in 10 days
- Albenza (Albendazole) 50 mg/kg once
- Ivermectin - IM not oral

Coccidia
- Albon (sulfadimethoxine)50 mg/kg one time a day for 21-28 days and This bit is from Pet Place and the dose information is from Mader:
-Trimethoprim plus sulfadiazine and trimethoprim plus sulfamethoxazole are the most often-used combinations in veterinary medicine. These are similar in antibiotic function and may be used interchangeably. Trimethoprim-sulfa diazine 30 mg/kg once followed by 15 mg/kg for 21-28 days.

Trichomands ? is this Trichomonas? - if so MTZ

Giardia - MTZ
Capillaria - Benzimidazoles/Ivermectin


I took mine to the vet and he figured the doses and put the mg/kg info on the label. He will refill if I ask for it because he knows I keep a lot of lizards. I sometimes use MTZ and Panacur as a preventative.

With that many types of parasites I think I'd go and let the vet figure it out but I would think that you'll need MTZ, Panacur, and one or two of the others mentioned. It probably depends on the counts.

I'd also start putting acidophilus in the Repti Aid mix you are giving - just mix it right in - I get the kind in a capsule and open it into the mix and stir it in. Oregano oil is a natural antiparasitic, antibacterial and antifungal agent...it's a hot oil so if you were going to use some of that just put the tip of a toothpick in and stir that around.

Most of the doses will be .something/100 gm - I'll get the bottles out and look that up for you if you get Panacur and MTZ on your own. I think I'd go to the vet though. Good luck...Angie

Hi there,
Also see vet section thread info...
OK we've worked on this all day once we got the fecal results. The breeder who sold us our Beardy is super super nice. She insisted on sending us all the needed meds,plus the probiotics,and dispensing supplies no charge. we told her she didn't need to because we sort of figured it comes w/ the territory a little. but she said she really works on keeping her pets clean and doesn't feel right about someone having to have this much problem w/ one of hers newly bought. She's sending meds to include for the MHD also. It seems the capillaria and pinworms will be handled by one med. The flagyl w/ handle the trich- and the giardia. of course albon for coccidia. So thats a little less ! She's good about being open to and using alternative supplements and meds. So obviously thats a good thing. Well and just for the record she was clear to say that she would have had a different response to my first phone call about the bloody fecals then an associate who answered the phone. But she had no way of calling me back.
Here's our thinking....We decided since the beardy is larger and by all appearance's and behavior very healthy, and just generally a great big piggy!! That we will treat her per the doses given us by our breeder and the womyn from the "beautiful dragons" site. ( working together on it) We decided since the MHD is not eating and beginning to show some physical signs to take the MHD in to the vet., For recommendations , suggestions. And we'll use our meds probably.. Depends what he says I guess. I understand the idea of self treatment being scary. Which is why I will take the MHD. I've never had one befor and there are some questions. I want to make sure I don't put too much food /liquid what ever into her at a time for one thing! Right now I'm doing about 2/3 of a cc @ a time w/ her. The "first aid" supplement recommended 2.2 cc 's per day spread out. no other direction as to how much to spread it out per the animals size etc...I would like to have the catheter tubes for this so their little throats and lips don't get raw doing all this! I;m sure the MHD already is somewhat. I will be happy to get a little refresher from the vet on some of the administering. Though I have in the past done lots of it myself. i had an Iguana w/ Pneumonia had to work closely w/ my vet (at the time) and among other things, aspirate her lungs w/ a tube for 2 months. Stories abound... At the time vets who knew anything at all about reptiles were nearly non existent, and some of the ones who claimed to know at the time didn't. The one that continued to tell me my female was male the whole time she was becoming more and more impacted was one of my favorite guys. That cost me around 3000.00 by the time it was all over with. Torn uterus, complete hysterectomy, visiting the vet 2 x weekly for the next month or two etc...!!
After that I bothered various zoo's a lot at the time! So I'm OK w/ having to do it though I certainly don't enjoy it! We'll keep the info. updated w/ the girls,,,,,I'll put the recommended meds and doses etc. up to see. Any continued insights are always appreciated!!

The exchange here is great though because the experiences people share here help everybody learn and recognize signs sooner, which can only benefit our pets! I know that if it weren't for people like your selves so much of what is known today wouldn't be! Veterinary colleges don't cover it all any more then medical educations do. Anyway Thank You, Thank You ,again,,,,G.W.

Hello!

I think that is a good idea. Your dragon, she is eating & healthy, I would basically just deworm her, & that is it. Panacur will take care of the pinworms, no problem. So are you going to treat with Flagyl & Albon as well for your dragon too, or just with Panacur?
For your dragon, I would start on the lower end of the Panacur with 25mg/kg once weekly, & then re-evaluate the counts. Sometimes it takes several rounds of treatments to completely get rid of them, or get the counts to acceptable levels.
The Flagyl (MRZ) for minor infestations, you should start with 25mg/kg every 3-4 days.
The Albon can be started with 50mg/kg for 3 days & then, every 48 hours thereafter. This is a more conservative approach as sulfa is extremely hard on the kidneys & is not recommended for dehydrated animals.
Do not use Ivermectin on your reptiles, it is too risky really. It is a livestock medication that really is not designed for reptiles & can quickly become toxic.
Your MHD, well, she is pretty ill. I definitely would not give any Albon to her at all. If she is dehydrated, it will interfere with liver & kidney function & compete for receptors when she is being fed. The Flagyl & Panacur should be safe in small amounts for her.
Veronica from beautiful dragons is a very nice woman. She is a great help. Glad you got hold of her also!

Keep us posted.

Tracie

Thanks Tracie,
We got an appt. with the vet... can't remember at the moment if it's tomorrow or Thursday... for the MHD. At that time we'll get the reports for both and know all the counts.
These 3 meds are the ones the breeder is sending us so that is perfect. Also she was saying the Giardia is likely making her feel horrible with intestinal pain, so not wanting to eat. I think that is taken care of by Flagyl so I am sure we'll start there and with the Panacur since pinworms can cause the bloody stools. Coccidia is "normal" in lizard guts unless the amount is too high... so like you all have said, we'll see what the counts are and report back.
We're hoping this vet is good and has actually had experience.
Oh... I think we mentioned we sent an email to the guy who sold us the MHD... basically telling him his description of care was lacking, etc, etc. He wrote back, we can share more later. BUT he said one thing we were wondering about...
He said MHD's are sort of nervous and need time to acclimate more than others and we shouldn't be force feeding her... just let her do it in her own time... ????? We wrote back with something about how long should we let her go without food or water because she was showing signs of dehydration. Wonder how many he has let "acclimate" to later find out they died instead.