I need a shct male

a hypo is actually a het for codominant ray hines hypo. a super hypo is a homo for codominant ray hines hypo.

Does this mean it is only true if you assume that hypo and super-hypo are codom from Ray Hine? I have several hypo-tangerines that do not have any Ray Hine blood, and I have had them for many years before he started introducing his lines to the USA. These breeders consistently produce hypo-tangerines with occasional super-hypos. I believe they were initially selectively line-bred.

I would bet, for sure they were line bred!
At least at some point of the process!

Marcia,

I'm just curious... Since most of Chad's stock comes from you and you say your lines largely do not include Ray Hine's stock... can you validate his claim that ALL of his animals are codom?

Does this mean it is only true if you assume that hypo and super-hypo are codom from Ray Hine? I have several hypo-tangerines that do not have any Ray Hine blood, and I have had them for many years before he started introducing his lines to the USA. These breeders consistently produce hypo-tangerines with occasional super-hypos. I believe they were initially selectively line-bred.

yes. assuming they are all ray hines codom line of hypos. that definition (line bred) of super hypo apparently is used to define line bred hypos with 10 or fewer spots. a ray hines super hypo is a homozygous hypo. i feel it is a much more accurate term when it refers to genetics and not just appearance. appearance can vary. you might have a spotty super hypo (using the genetic term) or a hypo with few spots. that doesnt make the super hypo a hypo. nor does that make the hypo a super hypo. what it all comes down to is genetics. if you cross ANYTHING with a ray hines super hypo (except for another ray hines hypo or super hypo) you will get ALL hypo offspring (het for codom hypo). all of them. thats why its much more important to go off the genetic term rather than the 'how many spots can i count' term.

I'm just curious... Since most of Chad's stock comes from you and you say your lines largely do not include Ray Hine's stock... can you validate his claim that ALL of his animals are codom?

actually stephen, i only own ONE gecko from her. and it is Spot which she can confirm is from hines/albey stock. every hypo i have is derived from hines stock. if you have any questions about what i have, stephen, feel free to direct them at me. all of my hypos are from four sources... VMS, Ric Kalman, albey and one from GGG. ALL of them are codom hypos. all but 1 are super hypos. the one i got from marcia is not a super hypo (nor was it sold to me as one). ive proven that through breeding.

p.s. i highly doubt her collection consists mostly of non ray hine hypos. shes just saying she has alot of non ray hine hypos. but marcia has alot of geckos all together. im sure her non ray hine hypos are merely a drop in the bucket by comparison. but im mostly speculating based on what ive seen of her collection.

Chad added a good point in the mix here, or atleast how I read it he did...

The term of Hypo and Super Hypo are dangling kinda loose. Where as a line bred super hypo may not compare to just a basic co-dom hypo. I know most people let buyers know if they have a ray hines or a line bred hypo (or a mixture there of). But it almost begs to have the two seperate ones (line bred vs Ray Hines) have a different name from each other. Or atleast reffered to in another way

It's not a huge deal to me personally, but I know that it can confuse a lot of people, just as it did in chads case, and I am sure many others who have read this.

know what I mean...or am I just blabbering on here

Actually, the vast majority of my hypo-tangerines are from the original Albey, Bill Brandt, and New York Geckos stock before Ray Hine introduced his line. I only have 2 geckos from Albey/Ray Hine stock. I do not have any SHCT's at all... just hypo- tangerines and a few super-hypo tangerines... all selectively bred. Since I do NOT line-breed, the HT's and SHT's I produce are from my own stock of geckos whos lines originally came from the breeders mentioned above a long time ago. The only Golden Gate Gecko Chad has is 75% Albey HT and 25% Ray Hine SHCT.

I think we need some standardization of the terms "hypo" and "super-hypo". It is my understanding that 'hypo' means less than 10 black/brown spots on the body, and 'super-hypo' means no body spotting at all. Now, the term 'carrot-tail' is used very loosely... and it seems that any gecko with orange coloration at the base of the tail is being called a "CT", which it is not! I believe that is a completely separate genetic trait.

I must agree whole heartedly on the whole carrot tail issue as well. I have seen geckos with hardly an orange spot on their tails that are labled as carrot tails.

I thought I read someplace that for a leo to be considered a carrot tail, it had to be atleast 20% orange (or something like that)...Not sure where it was I seen that though.

I think we need some standardization of the terms "hypo" and "super-hypo". It is my understanding that 'hypo' means less than 10 black/brown spots on the body, and 'super-hypo' means no body spotting at all. Now, the term 'carrot-tail' is used very loosely... and it seems that any gecko with orange coloration at the base of the tail is being called a "CT", which it is not! I believe that is a completely separate genetic trait.

agreed. but it should refer to the genetics. part of the standardization needs to refer to preexsiting terms that refer back to the genetics of the animal. when i first got into geckos i found myself confused by the 'Ghost' and 'Snow' phases in geckos. in EVERY other reptile i know of both a 'snow' and a 'ghost' is a double mutation made from the combination of anery with either amelanism or hypomelanism. as far as appearance, snows are lighly colored albinos (very light) and a ghost is a really nice looking anery (mainly grayscale, with some yellow).

in leopard geckos... well a ghost is either what you see pictures of in the 'Leopard and Fat-Tailed Geckos Reptile Keepers Guide' on page 31 or a lighly colored hypo (i guess).

a snow in leopard geckos is apparently a line bred gecko, line bred for reduced color creating the appearance of an anery (to me snows AND ghost in leos could possibly qualify as anerys, if it was consistent in breeding).

if we went by what is already established in other reptiles than it would be much more easy to keep track of whats what. i almost bought some snows (leopard gecko definition) believing it was the leopard geckos anery. i was going to implement the hypo and albino gene into it in attempts to recreate snows and ghosts (using the definition used by other reptile breeders i.g. corn snakes, hondurans, hognose, gopher snakes, red tail boas, kenyan sand boas, ect., ect.). no one could confirm that a single locus was responsible for the 'snow' (leopard gecko snow definition) so i decided to abandon the idea until something came about that was an official anery or axanthic.

wow i just reread that. see how confusing these terms can be when they are not consistant with other breeds of reptile?

a ray hines super hypo and a line bred super hypo are two different things. when super hypo is synonamous with the term carrot tail it is understood that it is the ray hines codominant line.

HOWEVER people get confused amongst all the ambiguos homonyms that seem to become hastely labeled on the different morphs and variations of geckos.

as far as the carrot tail... unless its a full band and consisting of at least 15% of the base of the tail it doesnt qualify. am i right?

chad all the "ghosts " morph is, is ray hine hypo BEFORE any color was bred into it....... at first they were very pale and light and with the selective breeding and crossing into the tang linbes it has come to what it is today... its not anything "new" just being called something different, i speculate so they can diferentiate and also for the hype reason................................... it would be pretty intersting to breed those into some of the albino lines cross that into a selectively bred "snow" line