Michael Cole, Ballroom Pythons South (BAD GUY)

I purchased a pair of Uroplatus phantasticus from Michael a few months ago for $300. Both animals were supposedly "fancy" which is how he justified the price. The animals arrived freezing cold and skin and bones. The male died about a week later. When I asked for a replacement, Michael told me I had waited too long and that he would replace the male if I paid what he pays to import the geckos plus shipping ($68). I agreed against my better judgement since I was now stuck with a single female and was sent another male. The second male was extremely underweight and died after about 3 weeks. I had not paid Michael for the second male up to this point and approached him about its death. He said it was entirely my fault that both males died, siting my use of "city water" as the culprit. According to him "the chlorine killed them." Why then has my female survived the entire time up to the present on the same water?

To sum up:
1) Michael Cole sells subpar animals
2) If you are going to buy from him, don't fall for his increased prices for "fancy" animals that are exactly the same as the regular ones.
3) If you buy from him and your animals die, he won't replace the animal for free or refund your money
4) He's quick to make excuses that are completely ridiculous and unfounded to place the blame on you

so this should in no means be take as defense of Michael. just trying to sort out the way things happened. QUOTE]I purchased a pair of Uroplatus phantasticus from Michael a few months ago for $300. Both animals were supposedly "fancy" which is how he justified the price.[/quote]
Did you see, or ask for pictures of these geckos prior to purchase? If not, you really have no one to blame but yourself that you were not happy with their appearance. Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, and maybe when seen with a bunch of others, they did appear better than average.

The animals arrived freezing cold and skin and bones. The male died about a week later. When I asked for a replacement, Michael told me I had waited too long and that he would replace the male if I paid what he pays to import the geckos plus shipping ($68).

You were unhappy with their condition on arrival - did you call Michael immediately to voice your concerns? Most dealers offer a 24-48 hr window after receipt to request refund/exchange if there is a problem with the animal. What are Michael's TOS, as stated, and did you comply with them? If not, many could/would argue that Michael was being generous in offering you a replacement for cost (who was to pay for shipping on the replacement?)

The second male was extremely underweight and died after about 3 weeks. I had not paid Michael for the second male up to this point and approached him about its death.

So he shipped you a replacement "at cost" without receiving money. Not bad - It gives you a chance to inspect the animal prior to paying. it sounds as if you were also unhappy with its condition from the start, so back to the first question: did you contact michael immediately, or wait til the animal deteriorated or died.
Now, just a few other questions (fact finding, if you will). have you had any experience with this type of gecko? describe the enclosure: including temps, humidity, cage furniture, etc; were they eating? drinking? Any copies of email correspondence regarding the animals in question? Have you notified Michael of this thread so we can hear his side of things?

I have to agree with Harald in that if you weren't happy with the purchase from the get go why not mention it to Mike right away and wait to do so for weeks? Regardless of husbandry issues, which make a big difference in the suvival rate of WC animals, remember that these are WC animals and for the most part they will most likely die unless you are absolutly on top of them. You should be going into any WC deal knowing that most likely the animals probably won't make it unfortunatly.

Did you take fecal samples to the vet to check for parasites? I think the main issue which absolves Mike from being a bad guy is your procrastination. You should have let him know as soon as you opened the box and weren't happy with the animals. It sounds like he was very accomidating in sending you a replacement that I assume you haven't paid for. This isn't to say you are a bad guy but let's face it, you waited too long to voice your opinion so is that really Mike's fault?

Matt Jillson

I sent a Private Message to Michael informing him of this thread's existence.

Michael,

I thought that you should know that someone has started a "Bad Guy" thread on the BOI about you at http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...ead.php?t=69282.

Jim

For the record, all of Michaels ads on Kingsnake include the following text:

24 hour 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Thanks
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
863-439-3015
8AM till 8PM EST on phone calls please

Adam,

If you were convinced that these were not "fancy" then you could have returned them during that window and the discussion here would be moot. But you chose to keep them and that does put some of the onus on you here. Also, Michael did ship off the replacement without being paid but has not come here to post a "Bad Guy" on you. That is not to say that he couldn't or that he won't, but it is worth mentioning.

As a side note, I saw some U. Phantasticus that Michael was selling at the Tampa show and they looked pretty good to me though I can't say that I thoroughly inspected them all.

I totally agree here. Something is not right. You (if you did not) should have contacted him within the 24 hours time frame he has on his terms and all his ads about anything regarding the animals. If you waited

I have known Mike for quite a few years now and know he sells great animals and takes care of his customers.

It does seem that you waited a little too long on the entire situation including posting here your feelings. It seems that you waited a week to say anything which is well past his guarantee period. If this is the case he went above and beyond with offering you a replacement at cost which he did not have to do.

Also $300 for a pair of U.Phantasticus is not too much higher than normal presently. Heck there are ads right now with pairs selling at $228, and Mike has a trio for $375 which would make a pair $250 so $300 for a pair that is a little better looking is not an outrageous price.

I am sure Mike will be here to post his side to this thread and more of this.

Should I even bother to defend myself here? I didn't realize I was pleading my case to the "I Love Mike Club".

I'm only a small time hobbyist but when I do sell online I provide far better service to my customers than Mike did to me. I guess I was expecting too much.

And how come no one found it strange or even mentioned his claim that chlorinated water killed my geckos?

Originally Posted by crestedsupreme

Should I even bother to defend myself here? I didn't realize I was pleading my case to the "I Love Mike Club".

I had a feeling that comment would be coming. A "Bad Guy" post can be a serious issue - it's here forever. If you know enough about the BOI to come here and post, you should have expected some questioning about the details. Nobody here has passed any kind of judgement, except that perhaps you should have notified Michael more promptly [you may have called him right after you opened the box, but your initial post does not indicate that you called him before the first animal died - a week after you received it]

Adam,

Did it ever occur to you that maybe chlorine in the water is detrimental to stressed out recent imports? Michael imports thousands of animals. If he said that I imagine that he had a reason. But really it is irrelevant. You had a chance to make this right for yourself and you chose not to do so. Then Michael sent you a replacement for free as it turns out and that one died too. When I hear a story like that I am always a bit concerned that maybe, in fact, the buyer did not properly care for the animal. I am not accusing you of doing that, just saying that the "red flag" is there.

The facts as you presented them are as follows:

• you bought a pair of geckos
• you were not happy with them from the moment they arrived
• you did not complain during your 24 hour "satisfaction guarantee" period
• one of the animals died
• the seller agreed to replace it at cost and you agreed to this
• the seller shipped the replacement to you without having been paid
• you never paid for the replacement animal as you had agreed to do
• the replacement animal also died
• you still never paid what you agreed to pay
• you posted a "Bad Guy" about the seller

It sounds as though a lot of this is so much sour grapes. As has been pointed out to you, if you were unhappy with the appearance or the condition of the animals as originally received, as you claim to have been, you could have returned them for a full refund. I know that if I received animals "freezing cold and skin and bones" I would have called the seller immediately and told him he would have them back in 24 hours, gone to a FedEx outlet and shipped them back, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You didn't. That, Adam, was your choice and your doing.

Michael Cole definitely does not deserve to be on a "bad guy" post. I have done business with him for 10 years and he has been a trustworthy businessman who was always willing to go the "extra mile" to make sure his customers were happy. When dealing with living things, especially wild caught, death of the animal is always a possibility. Michael has always stood behind his guarantee and has replaced animals or refunded money when necessary. I am not entirely sure about the chlorine issue, but do know that wild caught geckos are difficult to care for and should only be taken on by "seasoned" gecko owners. I can see how water with a strong chlorine content could have an adverse effect on the animal. However, I doubt that Michael was trying to say the death of the animal was your fault, but rather trying to troubleshoot the possibilities in an effort to prevent the same fate for future animals. He did make an effort to correct the problem on his end by sending you a new animal which I feel should have kept his name off of the "bad guy" forum. Michael is one of the rare reptile breeders who truly cares about the animals as well as the people whom he sells to. I don't think you are dealing with the "I love Mike club", although I would probably be on the board of directors of said club, I think you could better benefit from working with Micahel to resolve this situation since I have never seen him turn his head on an unsatisfied customer.
Tim Lane

I have a question for you Adam, concerning this quote of yours....

"he would replace the male if I paid what he pays to import the geckos plus shipping ($68). I agreed against my better judgement since I was now stuck with a single female and was sent another male. The second male was extremely underweight and died after about 3 weeks. I had not paid Michael for the second male up to this point and approached him about its death. "....

So you said you agreed to pay the $68 for the replacement Gecko, yet the animal died THREE WEEKS later and you STILL hadn't paid it??.... And THEN you went to talk to Mike about it's DEATH??.... It's funny, because I don't recall seeing a thread from Mike asking where his money was, after THREE WEEKS??.... He probably wouldn't have said a thing if you hadn't posted this??....

I've known Mike for years and we've done a bunch of biz together.... I've never had one problem with his animals, they were all gorgeous and healthy.... Of course, I KNOW how to take care of the species I sell, and the things I don't know, Mike tells me (like the Chlorine in this Alligator Piss we call Tap Water).... it can't be good for a fragile animal....

Neil