Refunding shipping costs?

Neil - I agree with you. I was trying to make things a little more clear since I think Seamus took me as being a cheap skate or something I think Rob probably got my second point across a little bit better than I did.

I have to agree with Erin and Rob on this topic. I just shipped a Blizzard Lizard the other day via U.S.P.S.. Originally, I wanted $80.00 for the gecko and I knew shipping was going to be in the area of $15.00. I charged $95.00 shipped. I ended up buying a 40 hour heat pack for $4.00 and due to the fact that I got to the post office after closing, I had to buy another $4.00 heat pack and then the box and the insulation... Finally, I go to ship it and it was around $17.85 + say another $10.00 on heat, etc... Now I wasnt even worried about it because I was charging $15.00 for the shipping (I'm pretty sure I told her) and I would take charge of any additional fees to get it from point A to Point B. Well, it was late and I recieved my refund. I did not feel that I should refund anymore than $15.00 for the shipping and I did refund the $15.00. She did not ask for a refund, but I sent it back through Paypal and that was that. Now am I wrong because I did not send her the $17.85? I do understand that if it was Delta Dash that it would be a condsiderable amount more, but then that would be included in the price and refunded accordingly.... I think as long as the customer knows what you are charging for shipping then it should be no problem. Also as a buyer I have never thought I was due refund if something was late and I would be kinda stoked to get any money back. Anyways, this is just my opinion on the matter.
Thanks, Tom Baker

There is another perspective to this issue.

Several years ago, when I had my original Airborne Express account, I made several shipments to a particular guy up north. Well, apparently in EVERY instance, Airborne didn't get the package to him until past the noontime guaranteed delivery time. Since he knew that Airborne GUARANTEED delivery by noontime, in his instance, he would then call me up and demand a refund of the shipping fee. Of course, that put me between a rock and a hard place, so I had to, in turn, contact Airborne and fight with them to get that refund. Unbeknownst to me, this guy was calling his local Airborne office and being a real pain to them about the whole issue. Like a dummy, I was also making a point to tell my other customers to let me know if the package showed up late and I would get them a refund for their shipping fee as well. Somehow, this all caused a backflow in the plumbing beween myself and Airborne.

Long story made short, Airborne told me flat out that they would just as soon not have my business and dropped my account. Yes, I was in the right for demanding the refund if they did not meet their guarantee. Yes, my customers were in the right for demanding that refund, and yes, I was in the right for demanding the refund from Airborne so I could pay my customers.

But all of those 'rights' ended up being a very big 'wrong'.

We just don't have that many options available to us to ship our animals out to customers. So why rock the boat excessively? This is a very good case of being penny wise but dollar foolish.

Now when I ship out a package, I do not give out the airbill number to the customer. I don't WANT them calling and complaining to my shipper. I tell them to contact ME, and I will handle all of that. After all, it is my responsibility and that is what they are paying me for.

I also do not guarantee delivery for any particular time. I tell them that it NORMALLY gets there by such and such a time on the date it is supposed to show up. I tell them that I guarantee that the animals will get there alive and healthy, and that is it. This season I waited a little too long to close down shipping before the Christmas rush and had a box take four days to get out to Oregon. Everything showed up there OK, but I was already checking to make sure I had replacement animals to send to my customer, figuring they were goners for sure.

I will call the shipper and try to prod them on about a late package, but I learned that in some cases, the squeaky hinge doesn't get oiled, it gets pried off with a crowbar. So I just don't even try to get a refund from them.

If you make yourself a big enough pain to your shipper, even though you are right, and what you are doing is 'by the book', you could still find yourself suddenly looking for another way to ship your animals.

It may be in everyone's best interests to just be very careful about this aspect of our business. We can't afford to burn any bridges.

Rich.... EXACTLY!!.... And you wonder why I DON'T say negative things about some of the other places that help me make a living??.... I won't cut off my nose to spite my face....

....Neil

But no, I never said I wonder about your position. Quite the contrary, I do understand it completely.

Adam.... YOU'RE bitching because YOU didn't get something on time???.... lmao

Neil, PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN MY FRIEND!!

Where did you hear me bitching again? I made a staitment, that I've had packages come late and helped the shipper get a refund. You gotta read the post to respond buddy.

As for the other points. Free shipping is very simple. It's like being pregnant, you either are or you aren't. If I sell a snake on my site for $100 and I say shipping is free. Well, the snake is either $100 or it's not, there's no question.

For the hobbiest fine, do what you want about your shipping. For me, I don't and wouldn't refund shipping. I offer a 6 month promise on ALL the snakes I sell. If you're not happy I'll give you the money back or a new snake. In this case do you think I'm going to pay for shipping 3 times?

Look at many of the rodent places. They charge you a shipping rate based on what you would pay not what they pay. They are making money on shipping. I also charge a flat fee, I charge $39 in the summer and $25 in the winter. I charge a flat fee as shipping can be $16-$35 plus $10 for shipping supplies in the summer. I don't refund when it's less or ask for money when it's more.

My whole point to this is people seem to bring up businesses when it suits them and other points when it doesn't. I would also choose somebody to pay for shipping with their own account number just to make things easy. However, I've never asked for a refund on late packages, I've never had somebody ask and while I see many of the points you're all making I would have to really think about it in a given situation.

As a across the board rule though with both animals and eBay shipping cost are never refunded as it only causes me trouble in the end.

Adam Block

What I'm saying is that if the customer has paid $35 for shipping (as they all do for me since I'm not doing large snakes, hots, or expensive animals) and Shipping ends up costing me $40 then I've just sucked up $5 and made less than I had intended on the animal. If someone pays the price of the animals and $35 for shipping and the package happens to be late, if the shipping was going to be more than $35, I don't understand the point of having to give them back more money than they given me for shipping.

My sincerest apologies for any insult I may have inadvertantly caused. I intended no offense and in retrospect read the post incorrectly.

I formed the misimpression that you were unwilling to refund more than $35 no matter what amount was paid by the customer. Having come to the post later, I skimmed the thread and failed to see that you were responding to the issue of paying for shipping above and beyond the quoted price to the customer.

Thanks Seamus! *hug* (I'm a chick, I'm allowed to give out hugs). Sweet of you to reread, but did you have to include my grammar error in your quote?

Bottom line, I would subtract out my hard costs (Box, heatpacks etc...) and send the difference to the buyer. Despite Adam's comment it WILL be the best and cheapest advertising you ever do. You will be a hero to your customer who, in 99 out of 100 instances, will not be expecting anything back and, in this scenario, their goodwill and appreciation cost you exactly nothing out of pocket. This is the original win win situation