Shipping Questions.... spam_UPS/USPS/

Hi everyone, I'm not really sure if this is the right place to post a question regarding shipping but this is the Board of "Inquiry" and I really need some vital info.

I tried to ship today via UPS from a Box IT... spam_The package was labeled "Live Harmless Geckos" and was turned down by the store manager after talking to UPS. spam_They said they did not ship live animals. spam_I thought it was ok to ship harmless reptiles via UPS, not sure about snakes, but there where just leopard geckos.

Also is it legal to ship geckos via USPS? Or is there a new provision making it illegal?

If no one will ship out animals how is the industry going to function? spam_

I normally ship USPS... but they couldn't guarantee overnight delivery to this particular location and that is why I went to Box It.

Thanks to all who help me out here... I'm really quite worried.

-Holland Theis

It's not the right place (go to discussions). To answer your question, i ship ups all the time. No i don't mark my box live harmless animals. I mark fragile handle with care. The drivers know and don't mind and often ask to see the herp inside and other questions about them. As for usps they change all the time regarding what they ship and aren't that reliable anyway (my opinion) so i no longer use them. I used to ship airborne but due to cost i no longer use. I would recieve and ship packages via airborne and mark the boxes live harmless reptile and have never had problems.. Some say it's wrong or illegal but our choices are limited and i never was told anything so you have to decide your shipper of choice and how to label package.  Many well known breeders do the same so do what you feel works for you...

Shipping via UPS is legal if you have an approved account with them to ship reptiles but not Snakes. I ship approx. 10-20 boxes a week all marked "live Harmless Reptiles" "keep cool" "fragile" without any problems. spam_Also you have to drop them off at the UPS counter. Any of the u shipit type establishments no matter if you have an account will ship live anything via them.
USPS ships reptiles except snakes if ok but now they are no longer able to guarantee next day service with live animals to any location. spam_Most of the locations wtill make it next day but they can't guarantee it any longer. They had to reimburse me about $1000 in shipping cost when they could not make it next day like guaranteed.

As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong) labeling "live reptile", but not specifying the species is a violation of the Lacey (sp?) Act. Having said this I know that Airborne Express ships boxes with just the label "live harmless reptile" on it. I have received packages from well known breeders labeled that way. If you are going to use UPS overnight a label like "perishable, avoid extreme temperatures" usually works. Take extra precautions with the packaging to avoid "accidents".

Regards,

Such labeling is not a violation of the Lacy Act.

This law only governs the commerce of wildlife which was bought/sold/trasnsported in violation of U.S., state, foriegn, or Indian law.
Unless the species in question is illegal to transport in the first place, the Lacy Act does not apply.
It does cover all species protected by CITES, but again the movement of the animal must be in violation of the law to begin with.
It doesn't matter what type of law was violated, the animal could have been illegally collected, illegally imported, or moved out of a state where it is native and illegal to take it accross state lines.

The Act does make it illegal to mislabel wildlife shipments, but not if the transport or sale of the species is not otherwise governed.
For instance, if you were shipping Eastern Indigos out of Florida marked as Eastern Kingsnakes, then that's a Lacy Act violation, but if you were shipping california kingsnakes labeled as Leopard geckos, that is not. It may not be ethical, but it's not a violation of the Lacy Act.

Here's a couple of not overly technical links on the Lacy Act if you would like to read more about it:

http://laws.fws.gov/lawsdigest/lacey.html

http://pacific.fws.gov/news/2000/2000-98.htm

Clay,

Thanks for the clarification. What happens if you ship a snake that is protected by CITES, you label the box as live harmless lizard and you are caught while doing that?

Regards,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Today the Act prohibits the import, export, transport, sale, receipt, acquisition, or purchase of fish, wildlife, or plants in interstate or foreign commerce that were taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of state, tribal, foreign, or U.S. law.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Here is an easy way to clarify the transportation part of the lacy act. spam_The American Alligator (Alligator Mississippiensis) is a protected species. It is legal to sell, purchase, and own with the proper license in the state of Florida. spam_If I ship one to a state where they are legal it is not a violation of the lacy act. If I ship one to a state where they are illegal to own, I have just violated the lacy act and am subject to all fines and imprisonment. spam_As long as the animal shipped is not endangered and classified under the ESA (endangered species act) and illegal in either the shipping state or receiving state then it does not violate the Lacy act even if not labled.

While not a violation of the Lacey Act, it is a violation of federal law when the package crosses state borders. In other words, the examples given above, ehile not violations of Lacey, are still illegal.

50CFR14.81 states:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Except as otherwise provided in this subpart, no person may import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife (including shellfish and fishery products) unless he/she marks each container or package conspicuously on the outside with both the name and address of the shipper and consignee. An accurate and legible list of its contents by species scientific name and the number of each species and whether or not the listed species are venomous must accompany the entire shipment. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

As per 50CFR14.82 (Alternatives and Exemptions to the Marking Requirement), you can meet the species requirement by affixing an invoice, bill of lading, or packing slip to the outside of the box.

I always write what's inside (i.e. (1) Elaphe Guttata Guttata) on the underside of the box in dark ink (Does that meet the definition of conspicuous? &nbsp;I'd argue so in court, I suppose). &nbsp;However, I was not aware of the requirement to state whether the contents are venomous. &nbsp;

Thanks for the info! &nbsp; <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Just clarifying a detail about the Lacey Act and it's application to the correct labeling of wildlife shipments.

&nbsp; &nbsp;The legal or illegal status of wildlife in interstate transport does not have anything to do with the labeling requirement under the Lacey Act. Correct labeling is required on every wildlife shipment. &nbsp;From one of the links provided the following statement identifies the labeling requirement:

"The Lacey Act also makes it illegal to mislabel wildlife shipments, bring injurious species into the country, and import live wildlife under inhumane conditions."

&nbsp;Correct labeling required under the Lacey Act is:

&nbsp;1) Common Name
&nbsp;2) Scientific Name
&nbsp;3) Total number of each type

&nbsp;The above requirement for any interstate wildlife shipment can be verified by any U.S. Fish and Wildlife field office.


&nbsp;Additionally, because the overnight shippers such as Fed-Ex, UPS, and Airborne Express have specific requirements about contents labeling, mislabeling begins to infringe on indivdual state statutory transportation regulations that again would be a violation of the Lacey Act in interstate transport.

&nbsp;So, just make sure every box is labeled correctly. It avoids any Lacey Act problems. &nbsp;Then it is just whether the overnight carrier will accept the box. But, much better that than this:

"However, the Criminal Fines Improvement Act of 1987 increased the fines under the Lacey Act for misdemeanors to a maximum of $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for organizations. Maximum fines for felonies were increased to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations."


&nbsp;The complete solution to the shipping question is to become a known / verified shipper with at least 2 major airlines, the best being Delta and Continental. &nbsp;The way to accomplish this is to open an air cargo shipping account with these two carriers. It will take some time because of the 9/11/2001 implications, but it can be done. &nbsp;


Steve Osborne
PROFESSIONAL BREEDERS