Adam Wysocki - No response

Originally Posted by waltah!

Ingrid, I'm glad he's gonna take care of you. That sounds like the Adam I know and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the animal you receive.

Thanks Walt. I have never been disappointed with one yet. As usual, he picked out an outstanding animal that he knew I would love. I knew something had to be very wrong when I couldn't get ahold of him.

Sam.. .Im not gonna flame.. and Im not a hater. I call things the way I see them. Adam admits to having a debt to repay. He admited it on another forum and again to a member here that he met at a very recent show.

If you have a debt to repay... pay it. I could care less about his success and there definitely is no jealousy or agenda... as my primarily species is not Ball Pythons.... relatively speaking... probably only 1-2% of my animals is BP's. That is not where my interest lies.

He admited to owing a debt... he should pay it. I would love to see the OP's proof... but we do have Adam's admission.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

Sam.. .Im not gonna flame.. and Im not a hater. I call things the way I see them. Adam admits to having a debt to repay. He admited it on another forum and again to a member here that he met at a very recent show.

If you have a debt to repay... pay it. I could care less about his success and there definitely is no jealousy or agenda... as my primarily species is not Ball Pythons.... relatively speaking... probably only 1-2% of my animals is BP's. That is not where my interest lies.

He admited to owing a debt... he should pay it. I would love to see the OP's proof... but we do have Adam's admission.

Things are never so black and white Kevin, often times they are a shade of gray. In this case there appears to be some sort of gray... There hasn't been any info shown to determine what the cause is for the delay in payment. If it is proven that 100% of the fault lies with Adam, then shame on him and he deserves whatever he gets, but until I see such proof I'm not willing to hang this all on Adam. He deserves to take heat for not staying in contact with people, but I still have a feeling that the OP isn't as faultless in this situation as he would have everyone believe.

You've been around here long enough to know that many times the deeper you dig into the initial posts on a bad guy thread the more the story stinks. Which is why usually the accuser is asked to provide proof at the beginning. How many times has a person come here with an accusation only to have it turn out 10 pages later that the actual story was completely different then it was initially laid out?

That's all I've been saying from the get go, lets get all the facts before we throw the rope over the tree branch. Absolutely Adam hasn't handled this situation very well, but I would think that people would want to see verifiable facts before tearing him down....

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

I hear you, but we don't know what they have said to each other since then...

I'm only speculating and this should in no way be taken as fact, but how do we know the conversation hasn't gone something like:

Adam: Hey the CITES originally ran out because you weren't ready for delivery, what would you like to do, get a refund, or pick different snakes?

OP: Well, I see you are incubating XXX morph, could I get some of those when they hatch instead?

Adam: Sure, I'll let you know when they are out of the egg and ready to go

OP: OK, I look forward to it.

Adam: Hey are you ready for these XXX morphs?

OP: Well, the the BP market is in the tank so I don't think OI want those anymore, can I just get what I originally ordered?

Adam: Well, I don't have those available anymore, I can try to get them or just refund you.

OP: Well, OK a refund will work, but not what i originally paid, I could have made $XXXX more if I would have already had what you were going to send me so now i want $XXXX instead.

Adam: Well, I want to work with you, but that's not what I'm willing to pay you, I'll give you the original $XXXX back and toss in XX Morph for your troubles

OP: let me think about it....

Etc, Etc, Etc....

That's just one of a hundred different scenarios; without anyone showing correspondence, we don't know what exactly has been discussed or agreed upon over the course of the last 2 years.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

Like I said... I want to see the OP's proof. And since its not been very forth coming... Im sure something is not quite right.... but what I do have is Adam saying on two different occasions that he owes the OP some money.

Keep in mind that it was months ago when Adam posted about the situation. Only 2 people really know what's been said and done since then. Adam hasn't been here for personal reasons or because he simply doesn't want to. The OP hasn't posted any recent (or any) communication between them.

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

The problem is we have no way of knowing what is holding up the payment. It could be the OP saying one thing here on the forums and then making completely different arrangements with Adam. No one knows for sure except those two, Adam hasn't addressed any of the allegations, other than a vague reference in a post that pre-dates this thread on another site. The Original poster hasn't chosen to show any proof to his claims, time line, or correspondence between himself and Adam, even though he stated he was willing and able to do so. For all we know every time He and Adam worked out an arrangement the OP changed his mind and wanted something else, wouldn't be the first time that has happened to any number of sellers. There hasn't been enough info posted or proven one way or the other to say if one or both of them are at fault here; not that that has stopped many from calling for Adam's head. If it weren't for the fact that some people were jealous of Adams early success and/or have their own agendas to further, then the OP would have been compelled into showing his proof before the haters whipped the lemmings into a frenzy...

Personally, I think it is probably a combination of things with fault on both Adam and the OP, but until someone actually posts up some concrete, verifiable facts then there is just no way to know the real story.

*Flame on haters*

One of Fauna uses is to give aid to those customers who are having issues with breeders. What I am seeing is that members are holding back more so than attacking (probably BECAUSE they want to give Adam the benefit of a doubt), but most of us aren't going to stand for having our intelligence insulted.

I don't think any of us are "haters." Why do you think that this breeder should get the benefit of a doubt when he has ADMITTED he owes money? I read those posts on Bp-net when they were first posted. Not only that, but other customers have recently come forth.

Actually, IMO, it doesn't say much to Adam's credit that those customers had to POST HERE BEFORE THEY GOT THEIR ISSUES RESOLVED. It's all well and good to take care of business after being prodded, but I am not convinced that he would have done anything to resolve the issues if they hadn't posted (but that's me).

So far, the facts, as I have read them, are:

Adam owes this African customer some money (yet to be resolved)
Other customers have come out and spoken up (sometimes having a heavy rep can intimidate customers)
Adam rushed to resolve the smaller amounts but has yet to resolve (as far as I know) the main cause of this thread.

Doesn't sound as if anyone is "hating' when those facts are presented and stand on their own merit.

I know first hand Adam is a hard gentleman to get ahold of. I bought an Adult Female Bp from him at the Richmond Reptile Expo on 3-28-10. I tried emailing him and calling him regarding the Adult Female I purchased But I never recived a response from him nor a phone call back. The Bp is in great health. I just had some questions regarding the Bp that I forgot to ask about when I purchased her ( Her current feed and if she had been breed before)

I'm curious about the admission on the other forum. I was sent a link via PM since they aren't allowed here and I seen nothing even close to an admission, only Adam say he had pm'd the guy.

Is this the admission everyones talking about or is there another post?

If so and so said that he said that he owes the op money... well obviously that isn't an admission either.

IMO if there is no actual evidence and prior to this Adam had a great reputation then everyone shouldn't be so quick to believe the worst. Its like believing a complete stranger over a close friend without evidence, just doesn't make sense. Seems to me a neutral stance should be taken until something substantial is presented in the way of proof.

Also while Adams silence is not helping him neither is the OPs. It still remains to be seen why when asked for proof he disappeared. He was posting regularly before that point.

Just my 2 cents

Originally Posted by Marleysbeard

I'm curious about the admission on the other forum. I was sent a link via PM since they aren't allowed here and I seen nothing even close to an admission, only Adam say he had pm'd the guy.

Is this the admission everyones talking about or is there another post?

If so and so said that he said that he owes the op money... well obviously that isn't an admission either.

IMO if there is no actual evidence and prior to this Adam had a great reputation then everyone shouldn't be so quick to believe the worst. Its like believing a complete stranger over a close friend without evidence, just doesn't make sense. Seems to me a neutral stance should be taken until something substantial is presented in the way of proof.

Also while Adams silence is not helping him neither is the OPs. It still remains to be seen why when asked for proof he disappeared. He was posting regularly before that point.

Just my 2 cents

The closest I saw Adam admit to anything was when he posted that "Several mistakes were made, he accepts full responsibility for the mistakes and has offered a resolution that was happily accepted". No further details were offered by either party.

Of course Mr. Locke hasn't exactly been consistent with his version of the details in his posts at the various websites:

Originally Posted by lockes

I ordered and paid for 17 Ball Pythons in February 2008. Due to living in South Africa, CITES requires a number of permits to be issued. Adam was unable to obtain all the relevant permits and subsequently agreed to cancel the transaction and refund my money.

Originally Posted by lockes @ BP.net

yes i paid in full in February 2008 for five ball Pythons and then a further payment last year June for a further 10 normal Females.

Originally Posted by lockes @ BLBC

I am going to put together a detailed timeline so it can't be said that i did not detail all the facts but the summary is I ordered 17 snakes, $4750 & $1000 paid in full, have not received any snakes and mutually agreed to cancel the transaction and get refunded in full but that's where it ended.

Originally Posted by lockes

I do have all the invoices, proof of payments and countless emails of promises and more promises. I just want him to get back to me and respond to my emails. I have also phoned and left messages in the past but with no luck.

Hopefully he will get back to me after hearing of this thread. I am out of pocket of $5000 and I can't just forget about that

It seems Mr. Locke can't quite figure out exactly how many snakes he ordered or how much he actually paid. Just one more reason that it would be nice if he posted the invoices, receipts, correspondence, and timeline that he said he would provide.....