Scammed by Andrew Michael Popp Las Vegas, NV

Originally Posted by Stillbp

Ok I don't post much and have not been posting in this thread as I do not know anything about turtles or any of the parties involved but I have a really stupid question
And I'm not trying to get anyone or poke or anything I simply am curious
If you have the funds to spend 6 grand on a few turtles and have the time and funds to drop everything and fly across the country to file lawsuits why did you not just fly out to see these turtles in person and if they were not what you want don't buy them that way you don't end up where you are now? It would have cost you airfare ( flight to Vegas is like 90 bucks) and a day of your time

Excellent point! Perhaps he went to Vegas to have some fun, but needed n alibi for the bread winner.

Well, he would not have been able to verify if they were hets or not by being there. He would have been able to verify/dispute the sizes, however. Also, getting an in-person read on the seller for body language cues could have potentially added value, but those vary with the person making them as well as the interpreter (I sometimes cross my arms when I am interested in something, while many will do the same as they mentally close themselves off to some part of a conversation; I have had this misconstrued more than once and have adjusted my non-verbal communication accordingly). Anyway, due diligence before the purchase was the way to go instead of afterwards. Unfortunately, that does not help anyone now. I do not think Chris Davis has enough substance for a winning case at this point. I do not think Andrew Popp has made the legitimacy of the animals compelling at this point. By the time he gets a heap of babies from breeding the females in question to a caramel male (or snow male) such that they might not prove out with a convincingly large sample size, years may have passed. I am not sure going to the trouble of court will be worthwhile when that happens and he might have to recoup what he has spent via the sales of albino het caramel and double het for snow offspring while waiting to find out what is up with the genetics of the females. It is a tough situation to be stuck with. He is not left with nothing, but it is far from what he paid for ***if*** they do not prove out as het for caramel. If they do prove out, then this was a special kind of cluster.

I added Andrew Popps 3 Albino “hets” to my group. The only males in the group are mature visual Caramels and snows.

Remember we later discovered Andrew Popp had advertised these same three turtles as albino only for a fraction of the price, prior to suddenly adding “Het” and inflating the size, ultimately collecting $6,000 in good old stolen funds. - after lying, he then admitted, then shut up.

Also factor in his statement that he did not know “het” really meant anything and did not think adding “het” was a “big deal”.

And in addition to many other red flags, I did get 5 eggs from one of the females this year. 5 were not viable. One did successfully hatch - the Turtle is a baby regular green colored Red eared slider, this is what I believe fully implicates and proves Andrew Popp deliberately mislead, lies, and schemed. He is a proven thief, as I said all along.

Originally Posted by calebroad

I added Andrew Popps 3 Albino “hets” to my group. The only males in the group are mature visual Caramels and snows.

Remember we later discovered Andrew Popp had advertised these same three turtles as albino only for a fraction of the price, prior to suddenly adding “Het” and inflating the size, ultimately collecting $6,000 in good old stolen funds. - after lying, he then admitted, then shut up.

Also factor in his statement that he did not know “het” really meant anything and did not think adding “het” was a “big deal”.

And in addition to many other red flags, I did get 5 eggs from one of the females this year. 5 were not viable. One did successfully hatch - the Turtle is a baby regular green colored Red eared slider, this is what I believe fully implicates and proves Andrew Popp deliberately mislead, lies, and schemed. He is a proven thief, as I said all along.

Correction - I did get 6 eggs, 5 were not viable

Originally Posted by calebroad

And in addition to many other red flags, I did get 5 eggs from one of the females this year. 5 were not viable. One did successfully hatch - the Turtle is a baby regular green colored Red eared slider, this is what I believe fully implicates and proves Andrew Popp deliberately mislead, lies, and schemed. He is a proven thief, as I said all along.

You have skirted the truth so many times in this thread that your credibility to many is tenuous. True, it may be difficult to construct a chain of evidence that would serve as believable proof for your claim, above, but absent such a chain, your claim may be just one more lie.
If in fact you did not get what you paid for, I think most would agree that would be unfortunate and not fair, but the waters have been muddied to such an extent that a final, fair accounting may be extremely hard to get at.

Lucille I really don’t want to go back and forth with you and the others full timers on the BOI. Andrew Michael Popp did scam me. Despite how much I dislike you, or vice versa. Andrew Popp did scam me.

I hope others will not trust this guy, this thread has not gone my way. But if I save one person from being frauded by Andrew Popp - this entire mess was worth my while.

Another one of the “hets” is now gravid, If i get a hatched baby Turtle, I will post if it is a beautiful caramel or snow - or not.

Originally Posted by calebroad

I added Andrew Popps 3 Albino “hets” to my group. The only males in the group are mature visual Caramels and snows.

Remember we later discovered Andrew Popp had advertised these same three turtles as albino only for a fraction of the price, prior to suddenly adding “Het” and inflating the size, ultimately collecting $6,000 in good old stolen funds. - after lying, he then admitted, then shut up.

Also factor in his statement that he did not know “het” really meant anything and did not think adding “het” was a “big deal”.

And in addition to many other red flags, I did get 5 eggs from one of the females this year. 5 were not viable. One did successfully hatch - the Turtle is a baby regular green colored Red eared slider, this is what I believe fully implicates and proves Andrew Popp deliberately mislead, lies, and schemed. He is a proven thief, as I said all along.

"We later discovered"'? Speak for yourself please. What I discovered is that you are quite sneaky andl deceptive. In other words, you lie.

Lying? - well with Chris Kennard, Lucille, and Andrew Popp - I’m in good company

Originally Posted by calebroad

I added Andrew Popps 3 Albino “hets” to my group. The only males in the group are mature visual Caramels and snows.

Remember we later discovered Andrew Popp had advertised these same three turtles as albino only for a fraction of the price, prior to suddenly adding “Het” and inflating the size, ultimately collecting $6,000 in good old stolen funds. - after lying, he then admitted, then shut up.

Also factor in his statement that he did not know “het” really meant anything and did not think adding “het” was a “big deal”.

And in addition to many other red flags, I did get 5 eggs from one of the females this year. 5 were not viable. One did successfully hatch - the Turtle is a baby regular green colored Red eared slider, this is what I believe fully implicates and proves Andrew Popp deliberately mislead, lies, and schemed. He is a proven thief, as I said all along.

That is not how it works.
You cannot base the likelihood of a het solely on ONE baby.

I'm basing my knowledge off snakes and lizards, assuming it works for turtles as well.

A Visual x het breeding nets a 50% chance each egg will be a visual & a 50% chance that it will not be a visual.
All the one baby proves is that the quarter came up tails instead of heads. There has to be a larger sample group for you to say conclusively that the female is not a het and you were lied to.

Originally Posted by calebroad

Lying? - well with Chris Kennard, Lucille, and Andrew Popp - I’m in good company

There you go again, presenting zero facts, and trying to divert readers from recognizing that you have no proof. You have done that on this thread and others, it has not worked in any of them.