Ethanol

Another thread in this section about feed prices has brought this issue up as well so I wanted to start a new thread on it, as it is something that has been bothering me for several years.

We need to do anything we can to curtail this ethanol push we are seeing from the government and the environmentalists.
To just say we are replacing 10% of our gasoline use with ethanol sounds real good on the surface, but these people who are such strong supporters of it either are ignorant of the truth or simply refuse to accept it.

Ethanol, in actuality, provides a negative return on energy. Consider the amount of petroleum consumed in the production of the ethanol to begin with, diesel used to power the machines that plow and plant and harvest the fields, the petroleum used in the fertilizer itself and the production of it, and the petroleum used in the processing of the corn into ethanol.
Then consider the effect it has on your car. My truck for instance (I've done the measurements) suffers a 15% decrease in gas mileage using 10% ethanol gas versus ethanol free gas. If you're replacing 10% of the gasoline with ethanol and getting 15% lower gas mileage, where is the benefit?
At my rate of mileage, I can pay as much as 50 cents per gallon more for ethanol free gasoline and still break even as compared to using the 10% ethanol.
All this is not even considering the damage done to the engines, especially older vehicles and all small engines, boats, and motorcycles.

Now consider that somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of all packaged foods contains some form of corn.
Two years ago I heard on the radio that that season a full third of the Kansas corn production was going to ethanol. That's the only actual figure I've heard, but it's feasible that the figures would be in the same range nation wide.
If you're taking around a third of the corn crop right off the top to produce a fuel that is a losing proposition, then trying to feed both ourselves and our livestock with the remainder, while continuing to export, it becomes very obvious why virtually all food prices have risen significantly, in some cases doubled or even tripled in the last five years. As an example 5 years ago I was buying ground beef for 99 cents a pound and today it averages 3.68 per pound.

I'm not saying ethanol is the sole reason for this, the devaluing of the dollar and inflation have played their parts as well, but the decreased availability of corn for food does play a large role.

Right now in my area there are still a couple of gas stations that continue to sell ethanol free gasoline. I buy all my fuel needs from those places for every vehicle and gas powered tool I own. I use no gas whatsoever that contains ethanol. I would encourage anyone else who has access to ethanol free gas to do the same. If it's more expensive, as it is for me, check your gas mileage, and I'll bet you'll still save money even when paying the extra for the gas to begin with.

I don't know how it is in other states, but in NC, the fuel depots actually discourage the sale of non ethanol gas by a form of discrimination.
When a tanker goes to load up for delivery there are two tanks they stop at, one puts gasoline in the tanker, and the next puts in the ethanol to achieve the 10% mix.
The trucks of course line up for access to the loading areas.
If a driver comes to get a load of non ethanol fuel, he is made to wait until all of the other drivers are loaded before he can load. This means a driver arriving at 7am might actually have to wait until late afternoon to get loaded.
As a result of these practices only one of our local fuel distributors will still haul non ethanol fuel.

Until we can convince our ignorant uninformed lawmakers, as well as the ones who are benefiting from the practice to change their regulations, if you have access to non ethanol fuel use it, in everything you have. For the time being speaking with your wallet is the only thing we have to do.
Ethanol is not the answer to our energy needs, that is not if we also want to eat ourselves and feed our livestock.

Yeah, I agree, but the problem is finding such gasoline stations offering ethanol free gasoline. There really aren't that many of them when I am located and it would certainly be an even greater challenge to locate them when on a trip out of town.

Obviously some serious money is crossing palms somewhere because of this. So who are the major beneficiaries?

I don't know a lot about ethanol so I have a question:

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

All this is not even considering the damage done to the engines,

What damage does it do?

Ethanol leaves a lot of deposits in an engine. I have an issue with ethanol-based gasoline with my 2000 Toyota Corolla, which is not a flex-fuel vehicle. Ethanol does not burn as clean as typical gasoline and will leave ash deposits on fuel injectors and spark plugs, further reducing the efficiency of your engine.

Ethanol as a fuel can work. Unfortunately, we're using ethanol extracted from corn, but only at a 1:1 ratio for energy inputs vs. energy outputs. Corn simply doesn't have enough sugar to make it worthwhile for ethanol production. We really should be using high sugar content plants such as sugar cane or sugar beets instead of corn.

There's also the added concern about diverting our food supply into generating fuel. Already we're seeing a lack of food exports to other countries because of the drought and the government mandates to produce enough ethanol to fuel our nationwide fleet. In 2008 a similar situation happened and many poorer countries literally went hungry.

I think ethanol, in the long run, can work as a viable fuel. However, we're going about it all wrong right now. We're in pretty severe growing pains, no matter how you look at it. Petroleum-based fuel is not going to get any cheaper. It's going to get harder and more expensive to extract, and it's not a limitless resource. In fact, it's estimated we will run out of petroleum deposits in 50 years if China continues its industrial expansion (which it will). We definitely need another fuel.

GMO , follow the trail
This all presented to the general public
10+ yrs ago under the label of biodiesel.
Month after month passed and the paid no heed
to any of the forthright double speak that was
advertised everywhere. People did not listen, don't drive a diesel
don't need to listen. Listening to the tail end
of the national level coverage telling you the consumer
they were coming soon to advance fuel(gas) technology well into the 21st Century.
THEIR HERE!!

FWIW the Stabil* product is a decent proactive
approach to ethanol woes.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Yeah, I agree, but the problem is finding such gasoline stations offering ethanol free gasoline. There really aren't that many of them when I am located and it would certainly be an even greater challenge to locate them when on a trip out of town.

That's very true, once you get out of your home area it's extremely difficult to find it, especially since the vast majority of stations that I know of are privately owned mom and pop style stations and not the big chains.

There is a website that attempts to keep track of where non ethanol fuel is sold, but it's user dependent and not always accurate as stations start and atop offering it, but it's at least a help.

http://pure-gas.org/

Supporting local stations that sell non ethanol will at least help keep them in business and keep it available. If enough did so then the larger stations would see the lost potential business and it might make a difference.
Unfortunately the population at large fails to realize the power they posses as consumers.

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

Unfortunately the population at large fails to realize the power they posses as consumers.

There first step before exercising power is to realize that there is a problem, that is why I appreciated that you posted. I never gave a lot of thought to ethanol, after your post, I will consider it more often and convey to my friends some of what you have written here.

Well, I think the point it, WHO actually wanted this stuff in our gasoline in the first place? No one asked me about it. How about you?

Accountability in Government ? they havent had to ask anybody for anything for the last two decades.

You'll like it like Mikey (he'll eat anything)

HEY MIKEY!!