Karma

I almost didn't want to make this thread because I don't want to get into an argument, but I feel like there's a very serious issue with the karma system on this site. I don't think it's any fault of the moderators or Rich, I don't know that it's ANYONE'S fault, and I very seriously have no idea how to rectify it. That being said, I still feel like it should be discussed.

I already mentioned this to some extent on another thread where I thought someone was making an attack on me (and I inappropriately responded by blowing up), and I figured that I might as well make it an official topic and discuss it properly like a normal adult.

Some of the people reading this will remember that I was banned a while ago for getting into an argument with another member. I completely deserved it, the other person started it but I retaliated and I deserved what I got. Since that happened, I have made it a point to completely stay away from the BOI, completely stay away from arguments, and really just do everything I could to make up for being a jerk by only posting on the discussion forums, sharing pictures, being helpful, and being friendly. Because I'm human I've erred a couple times in this goal and have argued with people, but for the most part I've been trying very hard to just be a positive member and contribute constructively.

Since doing this, I've had zero positive karma given to me. When I look at my karma points, 99% of them are for being snarky on the BOI and calling people out. When I think of karma I think of doing good things and being rewarded with good things. Calling someone out and being rude is not the way I think of earning karma points.

I'm not saying that I want my points taken away (:P), just that there is something fundamentally wrong with this. Again, I have NO idea how to fix this, but it's an observation that I think we all can relate to. I personally have been awarding karma to members who are helpful and friendly but I don't find that to be the norm. I just think that something needs to change.

Again, this is nothing against the staff on this site, I think it's a general problem with the community that we all have to work together on to fix. If you disagree I'm more than willing to hear other opinions, but I would appreciate it if we can at least keep things civil (I know I'm not the best person to request that, but I promise I will try my best and have been recently).

I should add that I've received zero positive karma over a 3 month period. The last karma I received was in January and was from the BOI (neglecting one instance of Nickolas finally converting me to his way of thought :P)

I think that generalizing that there is something wrong with the system based on your own experience may not be entirely valid. But maybe it is.
Perhaps validate or form a theory by posting a poll or some other way of checking out with other people what's going on (ask people to characterize the tenor/reason of the last 10 karmas they received, for instance).
I checked on my own recent karma points, and while some were from the BOI, there were others for instance, for checking on a member that had been away for a while, a birthday I remembered, etc.
And even the BOI ones were many times not for snark, but rather for making a point that others agreed with or found interesting or relevant.
Remember that participation is a two edged sword.
Sometimes I get karma for a good comment, other times I get people saying that some people participate too much (lol, usually they are in a corner by then and can't think of anything rational to say so they throw that at the wall and see if it sticks).
Be yourself. Be happy. Be genuinely interested in what's going on and the people here. The rest is just frosting on the cake.

Originally Posted by Lucille

And even the BOI ones were many times not for snark, but rather for making a point that others agreed with or found interesting or relevant.

That's usually what I get karma for as well (I used being snarky as an all-inclusive description), but I don't think of that as karma.

Your post in general is a good response though. I think you're right, I should consider it something personal that I endure to achieve, it's just now that I'm "outside of the crowd" it's sad to look back in and see what I was. It's really sad for me to see how people act and how people are rewarded.

I don't know that there is a solution. And I'm absolutely not saying I'm better than anyone or that I'm sitting on some pedestal. I still have arguments from time to time and I still call people out from time to time. But I wish that more members would make it an effort to be helpful and friendly rather than call people out or "make a point".

I don't think that "making a point" should be considered grounds for positive karma. That's not what true Karma is about. (No I'm not religious, just from a literal standpoint)

Originally Posted by Lucille

I think that generalizing that there is something wrong with the system based on your own experience may not be entirely valid.

Sorry for multi-posting (I have a bad habit of that) but this is completely true. This statement is entirely based on my own experience, but I have a very suspicious feeling that this holds true for almost every member. I would be incredibly surprised if this wasn't the case.

The fact is, a lot of us haven't been on this site for years and we haven't built up the relationships that others who are veterans have. You mention posting about people's birthdays, yet I have no clue about when ANYONE'S birthday is lol, and I'm sure most members are in the same boat. For those who have been around for a long time, it's easier to form relationships and get karma in that sense, but for newer members that's simply not possible.

It's an observation based on personal experience, but if it's not an accurate observation I will eat my shoe. And my shoe is very, very old and very, very dirty.

Originally Posted by MCMB-2

You mention posting about people's birthdays, yet I have no clue about when ANYONE'S birthday is lol, and I'm sure most members are in the same boat. For those who have been around for a long time, it's easier to form relationships and get karma in that sense, but for newer members that's simply not possible.

It's an observation based on personal experience, but if it's not an accurate observation I will eat my shoe. And my shoe is very, very old and very, very dirty.

Birthdays are posted on the main page daily. If you know/respect/like someone, and their birthday comes up, just wish them a happy birthday. New people can do that.
Forming relationships is all about being genuinely interested in people and keeping your eyes open to the world around you. If you see that someone is newly married, just had a child, just opened a business, just had an incredible clutch hatch out, send them a note of congratulations.

This may be an of relative traffic as well as people just respond well to snark. If you get 1 feedback unit per 100 views, a thread on BOI stuff will result in a lot more total feedback. There is little to no activity on the discussion forums, so you'll have to wait a lot longer or forever for any feedback there. I can't think of a way to fix that other than using the discussion forums more. I try to submit interesting (or whatever I think is interesting) scientific developments when they happen or if I'm part of them, but there's really not a lot of interest in discussion. I really hate Facebook but it seems that's where the active discussion happens nowadays.

The vast majority of my karma is from the BOI, but to be fair, that's where most of my posts are.

I also some from my advice in the veterinary forum, and from the thread about my reticulated python's surgery earlier this year.

People get emotional in the BOI. When people act on emotion, their actions are rarely logical. Most people with lots of karma on this site got that karma from the BOI, for good or bad. I've received positive karma from people who agreed with me and negative karma for people who disagreed with me. Karma for agreement isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as the argument was presented in a professional way, although certainly there are those who will use karma as a shallow attempt at retribution as well.

In all honesty, seeing a person with red boxes under their name is more important than how many green boxes someone has. The red boxes are useful... I can look up their posting history and see where and if they screwed up, if they just had a bad day and got dinged, or if they're a genuine idiot/liar/scammer that deserved every bit of red under their name. I think the karma system is more important for keeping red box people in check rather than feeding the egos of people with green boxes.