Sarah Shingleton, BAD GIRL

Originally posted by Bret Thacker

I know we can't see the snake and how it reacts but by the way it sounds it's extremely "pissy".
Question: How would you describe that kind of behavior and what would you tell your buyer?

Originally stated by the Seller

She is a bit of a hisser but usually calms down. When she is a little
stressed she will strike. She has gotten a LOT better since we've got her.
When we first got her she was downright NASTY. She would strike if you
walked by her cage. Now she hisses a little if you walk by and will puff up
if you open her cage."

Pretty much says it for me Brett

Granted she did say that this in definitely not a tame snake but I still think she should have mentioned the fact that this animal will go so far as to possibly injure itself to strike at any movements. I also think that the seller should have questioned her further abouyt specifics regarding it's temperament when made aware of the fact that it was not a "people freindly" animal. A snake slamming into the glass because you walk by the cage is IMO a step above simply being a pissy animal.
From her description, I would have expected a strike when first opening the bag, reaching in the cage while the snake was in there, when handling, and when doing maintenance. I would not be expecting an animal that would slam the cage whenever you walked by it.
I personally would have advertised this animal as only suitable for experienced keepers.
I also don't buy the reason she sold it as because she needed room but rather she most likely sold it because of it's temperament.

Originally Posted by SPJ

Granted she did say that this in definitely not a tame snake but I still think she should have mentioned the fact that this animal will go so far as to possibly injure itself to strike at any movements. .

I agree with John(Suncoast Herpetological) there was ample info given ahead of time. The OP has said after working with it for a bit it is calming down, and not striking the glass, so it was probably past that "stage" while with the seller, so maybe she didn't think it would revert back to that. At any rate I agree that the temperment (especially when mentioned) is not a good reason for a bad person BOI posting.

I didn't ask for quotes from someone else. I asked this question: How would you describe that kind of behavior and what would you tell your buyer?

If you look at a the timeline of her having the animal and the Burm's character then you will definitely see where Pete is coming from. I am not sure about your experience with Burmese but a good percentage of them start out "nasty" then tame down. This Burmese sounds as if it never tamed down.

It looks like that you breed and deal colubrids. A "nasty" Burmese is alot different than a hissing melanoleucus. I can attest, I have owned both. There is a difference with a snake that hisses and one that repetatively strikes the glass. And working with that large of an animal, it's present behavior should have been correctly stated. Rather than "Now she hisses a little if you walk by and will puff up if you open her cage". She also stated "when she is a little stressed she will strike", I know alot of snakes that will do that. That is a very generic description. Is the snake stressed all the time?

Are you correct that this shouldn't be on the BOI? I would have to agree with you on that. However, I was just pointing out that when selling a snake like that, your responsibilty as a seller of describing it's current behavior is extremely important to the buyer/seller's relationship.

Happy Holidays!

Bthacker

Brett

My reason for posting quotes from the sellers original Emails was to demonstrate that I considered the way she described the animal's behaviour ,pre-sale, to be a more than adequate way of accomplishing what you asked. I read your question to ask what should she have done differently.

I have worked with boids a lot over the years and am familiar with their quirks of temper. Given Peter's last couple of posts detailing how the animal is already calming down quite a bit, I would probably attribute any temporary escalation in the animals aggression to the stress of relocation.

I do firmly stand behind my earlier statements that the seller has done absolutely nothing wrong in this situation

This is coming from the point of view of someone relatively new in dealing online with buying reptiles. Although she did state to a degree the temperment of the snake, I believe she underembelished it some. Does this make her a bad guy? I don't think so but I do think that this type of grey area in buying and selling reptiles is one big difference in a very good business person and a decent business person.
I'll explain, The seller being a decent business person told him that it does have a temper etc... Although to make the sale she leaves it at that. A very good business person would have inquired about the buyer as well. Asking questions like Have you kept snakes of this type before? Are you buying as a pet or breeder? How old are you? If you are worried about her being aggressive I don't suggest you purchase her. The point is she should have made sure that he was completely satisfied with what he was going to be purchasing. I do not see her as a bad guy.
It is a grey area and with so many new people getting into reptiles and purchasing online for the first time I think the seller should question the buyers as much as the buyers question the sellers. People that have been in the business for awhile know what to ask and what too look for. People that are new really don't know. For example how many people have found the faunas after they were ripped off? A lot I know I was one of them and it is due to lack of knowledge about the industry and the nuances of dealing in reptiles online.
I can understand the frustration from the buyer although I wouldn't call the seller a bad guy I also wouldn't call her one of the truely good guys at this time. Anyway hope some of the rambling made sense.
Mark

I agree to disagree on the way she described the animal. That happen's.
Again, I agree that this shouldn't be on the BOI.
It is nice to see a thread that folks can learn a little something before buying/selling online. I have been tempted to post here about someone but decided not to only because it was my fault for doing business with her (after seeing some not so good posts on her business practices). I bit my tongue. Pete felt that this lady misrepresented the Burm. and we shouldn't hold it against him. He seems like a nice enough guy.

Anyway...Happy Holidays to all.

Bthacker

Originally Posted by Bthacker

I agree to disagree on the way she described the animal. That happen's.
Again, I agree that this shouldn't be on the BOI.
It is nice to see a thread that folks can learn a little something before buying/selling online. I have been tempted to post here about someone but decided not to only because it was my fault for doing business with her (after seeing some not so good posts on her business practices). I bit my tongue. Pete felt that this lady misrepresented the Burm. and we shouldn't hold it against him. He seems like a nice enough guy.

Anyway...Happy Holidays to all.

Bthacker

And I myself bit my tongue on this business deal. Now I know better. But folks, if I made the mistake of placing in the BOI instead of HELL please don't hold it against me. I've been in lots of different forums and this is just one of my favorites, people are actually friendly here.