Scammed by Andrew Michael Popp Las Vegas, NV

Still, how much are those non breeders worth Andrew?

For what it's worth (6Gs) you can get a cheap little tape measure at your local dollar store.

Originally Posted by Apopp1989

As I have stated, from that point on, the size of the turtles is a mute point. Don't you agree?

Thank You

What does your attorney say? Does he agree with you? You did state you had an attorney?

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

Originally Posted by Chris Kennard

Still, how much are those non breeders worth Andrew?

Respectfully I am to busy right now to look it up, but you are more than welcome to look up:

0.1 Adult Albino Red Eared Slider double het. Snow/Caramel

I don't want to miss quote or speculate, but I know I have looked in the past and much smaller ones where listed for more money.

Originally Posted by Apopp1989

Yes Bobby they are in the post you just sent, all 3 of them, and yes I do have his acceptance in writing as I have stated. In post #125 bottom left pic. you will read his declaration of acceptance. This is a text that if read carefully establishes both that he has received the turtles and that he accepts them. As I have stated, from that point on, the size of the turtles is a mute point. Don't you agree?

Thank You

Sorry, I missed that the first time. Do you have the messages leading up to those?

Too busy for that...

Originally Posted by Apopp1989

Or……….

Andrew Popp has been instructed by his council not to post or reply. However, against advice from council, I can stay silent no longer. Chris Davis is a lying Criminal who has willingly committed multiple criminal offences. I am in the process of seeking justice under the Law. He will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the Law for his crimes and he and his wife will be sued for Maximum remedies for their Slanderous and Defaming lies, that they have posted all over the Internet.

Andrew Popp

Andrew,
Just my opinion, I would of taken my council's instructions.

Good Luck.....

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

Originally Posted by Big Time Reptiles

Andrew,
Just my opinion, I would of taken my council's instructions.

Good Luck.....

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

Thank you Lynn I appreciate your advice. I would have done just that if it hadn't been for people who stood up for me getting harassed.

Originally Posted by Chris Kennard

Still, how much are those non breeders worth Andrew?

The market bounces around some with these. I cannot speak for Andrew or others on this, but here is how I would put it for myself or if I was paying to put animals into the hands of a partner. If I were in the market to add new females to a caramel/snow project and had an express need (as opposed to being able to take my time and reduce my costs by starting with hatchlings; my usual practice), I would be willing to pay more than the list price was in this case for three female albinos het for caramel. I do not know whether the animals in question are or are not legitimate in terms of genetics because I am not privy to that directly, so I am not judging that part, but this is more to answer your question.

Originally Posted by Chris Kennard

For what it's worth (6Gs) you can get a cheap little tape measure at your local dollar store.

lol

In all seriousness, the current industry standard practice among knowledgeable chelonian keepers is measuring by scl (straight carapace length). Imagine placing a turtle's shell lengthwise between two bookends until contact is made, sliding the turtle out sideways, and then measuring the straight distance between the inner contact surfaces of the two bookends. That is what I mean. Sometimes interference by gular scutes needs to be subtracted for some species or individuals which have extra gular projection (can also vary with sex in some species). Some people are a little (or a lot) better or worse at taking these measurements.

Some people meaure the length of the plastron only (big PITA IMO). Some people have a tendency to take a curvilinear measurement of the carapace. Those people may mention this as "over the top" or something like that. Some do not not specify which way they measure. The trouble with curvilinear measurements is that they do not give good size reference for judgment. A higher-domed and shorter-lengthed individual can give a longer curvilinear measurement value than a lower-domed and longer-lengthed individual. For example, I was once sold an "18-inch" yellow foot tortoise by an individual that really, really should have (and probably did) know better. I expected that to be scl, but did not demand clarification. When I received the animal, it was 13" scl. His fault for the crappy measurement and mine for not clarifying before paying. Lesson learned. If Andrew is not a chelonian guy by history, I can see this kind of error arising. It does not excuse it, but it can explain it.

Originally Posted by Chris Kennard

Proven? Lets narrow it down, shall we? How much are three non breeder size turtles worth?

With as small as they are they are worth a couple hundred bucks each MAX, and good luck even getting that much these days on normal albinos. If they truly are het for caramel/snow they are worth a little more... But even then if Chris wanted some baby turtles to raise up himself he couldve bought baby albino het snows for less than $1000 each from a reputable breeder.

The price Chris paid for the 3 turtles would have only made sense if this was 2014.