Why All The Hate Toward Reptiles By Mack?

Yes, Petsmart uses RBM as a supplier, but I don't know if that's true across the whole US. Generally speaking, when I worked for Petsmart (two years in animal care) we did absolutely everything we could to treat the animals well, get them, and sell them to people who'd give them good care. Generally, our shipments from RBM were healthy and well packed.

4 of my snakes are RBM animals, and I've had no problems with them. We did sometimes have batches of baby beardies that didn't thrive, and it was heartbreaking any time we couldn't save an animal. Frankly, part of the reason I quit is I no longer felt I could put the best interests of the animals first- but that's neither here nor there in regards to RBM.

The video was awful, but I believe Rich does have a point that in that large of numbers, statistically you will have more sick or injured animals. On the other hand, in the past PETA have planted their own people to abuse or neglect animals so they could film it an "expose" businesses.

Their ultimate goal is that we have no animals in contact with humans. No meat, no milk, no eggs, no pets, zoos, circuses. Were it up to them, they would snatch all of your cats and dogs and fish and reptiles and euthanize them. That agenda makes them suspect in my eyes. Can we say for certain that what they're claiming to expose is the truth?

That in no way excuses the treatment of those animals, inhumane methods of euthanasia, lack of medical care, or insufficient water and food or dirty enclosures. It'd behoove RBM to speak up about the situation, or show counter video of a clean facility and healthy animals. Were it me under fire, I would be doing whatever I could to show this is not a normal part of the facility.

It's also possible there could be a lawyer involved who'd tell them to keep quiet in the meantime.

Yeah, I'm disappointed and unhappy because I defended them, even though the vast majority of our animals were in great condition on arrival and while in our care.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?

All in all an interesting video if nothing else for what PETA's obvious goal is. So I get the impression that we all should jump on the PETA bandwagon now?

I don't think many people, specifically on a reptile website, would support PETA and I would hope the majority know and understand what their agenda is (to end all pet 'ownership'). Of course the video is highly edited to only show the worst things. Of course there are going to randomly be dirty cages and deaths at a major wholesaler/importer. There were things in the video that I personally didn't think were that big of a deal (the fresh shipments of turtles in crates 'desperate to get out', the frogs shipped in bottles) but other things were disturbing to me, such as the glue traps and bearded dragon festering wound, super skinny bearded.

I hope that we get to hear a response from the owner.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

How exactly did PETA get the run of the place at RBM and how long were they there? Was PETA purposely allowed access or did they get some people hired there specifically to do that obvious smear job? How many did they say they have already "exposed"? Six? Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?

According to some comments I read on Facebook - where the video is quickly going viral - the PETA-philes went in undercover as employees for several weeks which is typical for their modus operandi.

Animals crap. Cages get dirty 30 seconds after you clean them.

I see you've also kept retics.

So does that mean there should be NO wholesalers of animals?

While PETA has suggested that, I do not see anyone here advocating for that.

All in all an interesting video if nothing else for what PETA's obvious goal is. So I get the impression that we all should jump on the PETA bandwagon now? Go to 2:50 at the end of the video and listen to their goals. Sure let's all get worked up into a lynch mob and help them reach their goals. Boycott pet shops that sell animals! Get ALL animals out of the hands of everyone? And we are going to start with wholesalers! Yeah, that's the ticket!

PETA has never hidden its overall goals, and I do not agree with them. Also while the subject of the video is RBM, the public vitriol I've seen outside of the reptile community seems to be directed at PetSmart.

That said, I don't see it as a bad thing if the big box pet stores make the business decision to stop selling reptiles and repurpose the shelf space to selling supplies based on the husbandry practices I've seen locally. My local exotics-only shop has a wider variety of healthy, mite-free critters that are housed appropriately. I can't say the same for the big box stores.

And then when they go after the small time breeders who might just have one dead mouse or one water dish with crap an hour old in it, won't things be getting just ducky then? After all, won't these people ALSO be selling to the nasty pet shops still trying to stay in business?

Small-time breeders typically work out of their homes and can't afford employees, so the PETA-philes will have a much harder time gaining the level of access needed for a hatchet job.

Also there's also a big difference between a dirty water dish because it got crapped in (again), and someone stating he uses wire cutters to amputate legs, or putting live reptiles in the freezer to euthanize them.

They've posted something on Facebook and a full statement here:

http://www.reptilesbymack.com/reptil...-and-care.aspx

Here is a screen grab, hopefully

Originally Posted by dieselfan

I understand that mortality is part of dealing with livestock as do others, but the scale of suffering and death of what was shown is undeniable and unacceptable. The whole situation was compounded by John Mack sitting in this thread for almost an hour with nothing to say. If it were me and this whole situation was a ruse by PETA supporters I would have immediately explained the situation and then had an employee walk through my facility with their smart phone recording healthy animals in clean cages then uploaded it here. 2 pretty easy things to do in this day and age. Oh and if all reptile wholesalers went out of business I could care less. Then everyone would be forced to buy from breeders, both petshops and private collectors. Sure there are some crappy breeders out there but most are not. Can the same thing be said about large wholesalers? How is that a bad thing? Just my 2cents

Did you consider the fact that the owner may be facing actual criminal charges at the moment and that he may not wish to incriminate himself at all? LE do read boards for evidence.

I'm not on anyones side here... except firmly against PETA. But I think we should wait to see how this plays out first before getting out the tar and feathers....

Originally Posted by Hypancistrus

Did you consider the fact that the owner may be facing actual criminal charges at the moment and that he may not wish to incriminate himself at all? LE do read boards for evidence.

I'm not on anyones side here... except firmly against PETA. But I think we should wait to see how this plays out first before getting out the tar and feathers....

I did.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan...b_2979220.html

When ever you want to drag peta around, you just might want to be careful. They have a tendency to be less then forthright. They are also very litigious. So watch what you are saying.

I don't know reptiles by mack. Never have bought anything alive from petco or petsmart, would never use a wholesaler unless I really had to.

When you want to base your opinion on PETA, you might want to make sure you can verify what they said first hand.

I am going to stop there before I get a friendly letter.

That surprised me too. I guess "attack the messenger" is a suitable response? I don't agree with PETA's end game, but I actually really appreciate their undercover videos. Animal "agriculture" whether its hogs or sand skinks is ugly, that all there is to it.

I'm sure many of the people here would stop eating pork products if they had to spend a few hours seeing how pigs are treated / abused. Likewise, many people will choose a respected breeder over a big box pet store and the massive wholesalers who supply them with animals.

I've worked with importers and there is a lot of ugliness. Animals are not treated as pets on this scale. It makes no economic sense to do so. Untreated disease and injuries, less than humane euthanasia is common. Its just the nature of the game.

Last summer 45 *MILLION* birds where killed under a thick blanket of suffocating foam because they were exposed to avian flu. They died struggling for life, gasping for air. Did that change anyone's eating habits? DO peple who care about suffering lizards not care about suffering chickens? Or pigs? Or calves?

Originally Posted by Pouky28

This is funny now every body going to atack peta and defend the breeder

Originally Posted by thamnophis123

That surprised me too. I guess "attack the messenger" is a suitable response? I don't agree with PETA's end game, but I actually really appreciate their undercover videos. Animal "agriculture" whether its hogs or sand skinks is ugly, that all there is to it.

I'm sure many of the people here would stop eating pork products if they had to spend a few hours seeing how pigs are treated / abused. Likewise, many people will choose a respected breeder over a big box pet store and the massive wholesalers who supply them with animals.

I've worked with importers and there is a lot of ugliness. Animals are not treated as pets on this scale. It makes no economic sense to do so. Untreated disease and injuries, less than humane euthanasia is common. Its just the nature of the game.

Last summer 45 *MILLION* birds where killed under a thick blanket of suffocating foam because they were exposed to avian flu. They died struggling for life, gasping for air. Did that change anyone's eating habits? DO peple who care about suffering lizards not care about suffering chickens? Or pigs? Or calves?

I think Webslave covered it best in this thread. I will quote what he had to say:

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Well, since it has been established that it was PETA taking the video at RBM, (certainly without permission and under circumstances of THEIR choosing) and most certainly doing it under the pretext of being hired there to do a job, what job do you think it was that put them in the position to get that video footage? Cleaning animal cages perhaps? Caring for the animals, perhaps? Which do you think had the highest priority on their list of things to do every day? Take care of the animals they were tasked with, or getting the juiciest video they could to further the agenda they were tasked with by PETA?

Quite honestly, I am not convinced that this is any sort of unbiased view at all. I've been to some wholesalers myself, and some were extraordinarily well maintained, and others I wanted to take a half dozen showers after leaving there and burn the clothes I had been wearing. The worst seemed to be importers, in my opinion. The best were ones that bred their own animals for the majority of the stock they offered for sale. But none were, nor ever could be, pristine and spotless by any stretch of the imagination. Animals just do not give you that sort of luxury.

I am sorry, but I am just not buying into anything that PETA tries to convince me of. Not when their obvious agenda means the complete destruction of the entire animal industry. If anyone else wants to buy into that agenda, then have at it. Watch that video and pay attention to the end of it concerning what PETA is promoting. When they get your support to divide and conquer the wholesale aspect of the pet trade do you seriously think that will be the end of their focus? YOU, even with your handful of animals, will be next.