Labeling possible hets.

So sitting here looking through various animals for sale on this and other sites got me thinking about labeling possible hets. I have seen a number of threads that were labeled het for whatever and upon contacting the seller I found out that it was only a possible het. I understand that not everyone knows about genetics, however I was curious as to people's thoughts about labeling possible hets. At what point do you stop labeling an animal as a possible het?

For example lets say I have a Honduran milksnake that is 100% het for albino (we will keep it to one gene because multiple genes makes the math hurt my head after a generation or two ). I take this snake and breed it to a normal het for nothing. The babies are now going all be 50% het for albino, right. I would label this, as most would, "50% possible het albino or possible het albino". However, lets now say I take one of these 50% het albino babies and breed it to another normal het for nothing. I would be hesitant to label this as a possible het albino, although it certainly is. If my math is correct, they would be 25% het for albino. This is of course assuming that I have not proved out the 50% het albino snake. After this, you can see how it gets quite hairy.

I would not hesitate, and do, label possible hets if they are ^ 50%. Perhaps even 25% I can understand. However, beyond this the chances are so small that it is very unlikely the snake/or whatever is het for anything. With all of the hets being sold and purchased out there this is going to become a concern for someone looking for 100% hets or to prove out a 100% het they already have without the cost of a homozygous animal.

I should also mention that I do see a lot of threads correctly labeled as possible hets. I don't want to give the impression that mislabeling is rampant, just that it does happen.

I understand that this is purely hypothetical. However, these are the kinds of questions that get me thinking about the industry as a whole.

Thanks,

Kyle

i guess the thing is if you can get say 6 possible hets for the same price as a 100%het and do not mind doing the leg work to prove them out then it would be worth it but you definatly have to know what the parents backround is before you buy. i always do my homework when it comes to hets and never jump on a deal thats how you get burned.

I think it can't hurt to label them, but there's no point in pricing the higher than a normal. What's important in these cases is to give buyers a way to track the animals' genealogy. If a parent is proven a het, then suddenly that percentage changes, and they're going to want to know it's worth a shot to try proving the snake out.

It matters to me. I have sold 100% het stuff as normals becuase a person calls me up and wants say a nice ball python for a pet. If I do not have normals I look at my hets to sell them.

Then if I have 66% or 50% males it matters on what morph it is. Once it gets down nder 50% I rarely say anything

i agree, as long as the nice unknown het is priced a little higher than a norm.

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

I think it can't hurt to label them, but there's no point in pricing the higher than a normal. What's important in these cases is to give buyers a way to track the animals' genealogy. If a parent is proven a het, then suddenly that percentage changes, and they're going to want to know it's worth a shot to try proving the snake out.

There certainly is utility in knowing that the grandparent of a given animal was het for whatever. I know I have purchased possible hets with def hets or homozygous animals because they were cheaper than 2 100% het animals or 2 homozygous animals. If they prove out, it is GREAT!

The pricing issue is something that I did not even talk about but you bring up a good point about pricing possible hets higher. 100% hets yes, but possible hets? Thoughts? I generally have not/do not but I know that some do.

I have on fairly rare occasions seen 33% and 25% hets offered for sale. Strictly mathematically speaking I suppose that is an accurate description, but I always viewed the practice as semi unethical when using it to justify even a slightly higher price tag.
The reason is once you drop below 50% het, you are no longer even sure if the gene was involved in the breeding at all. So while they are mathematically 25% het, that doesn't mean much at all.
With 50% and 66% hets you are guaranteed a chance that you might hit the gene because you know that one or both of the parents were indeed carrying it.
Perhaps that only makes sense to me, but that's the way I have always viewed it.

The pricing issue is something that I did not even talk about but you bring up a good point about pricing possible hets higher. 100% hets yes, but possible hets? Thoughts? I generally have not/do not but I know that some do.

These days 50 and 66% pos hets are at best priced just a few dollars higher than normals if any at all. I mean you might see a normal female ball for $40 and a 66% pos het for 50.
In the past though, during the height of the ball python craze there were instances where pos hets were priced significantly higher than normals and it was an accepted practice.
For instance the genetic stripe gene. When they first entered the market, i fmy memory serves, visuals were priced at $20K and 100% hets were 7 or 8K each.
50% het females were priced at $500 the first couple of years. This was 20 times the cost of a normal female hatchling, but given the exorbitant price of the visuals and hets, it was still a good way for a gambler to get a chance at the gene without a huge outlay of cash.

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

I have on fairly rare occasions seen 33% and 25% hets offered for sale. Strictly mathematically speaking I suppose that is an accurate description, but I always viewed the practice as semi unethical when using it to justify even a slightly higher price tag.
The reason is once you drop below 50% het, you are no longer even sure if the gene was involved in the breeding at all. So while they are mathematically 25% het, that doesn't mean much at all.
With 50% and 66% hets you are guaranteed a chance that you might hit the gene because you know that one or both of the parents were indeed carrying it.
Perhaps that only makes sense to me, but that's the way I have always viewed it.



These days 50 and 66% pos hets are at best priced just a few dollars higher than normals if any at all. I mean you might see a normal female ball for $40 and a 66% pos het for 50.
In the past though, during the height of the ball python craze there were instances where pos hets were priced significantly higher than normals and it was an accepted practice.
For instance the genetic stripe gene. When they first entered the market, i fmy memory serves, visuals were priced at $20K and 100% hets were 7 or 8K each.
50% het females were priced at $500 the first couple of years. This was 20 times the cost of a normal female hatchling, but given the exorbitant price of the visuals and hets, it was still a good way for a gambler to get a chance at the gene without a huge outlay of cash.

Very good point Clay.

Buying a number of possible hets for prices just higher than normals almost guarantees you getting a homozygous animal out of breeding them (or at least increases the chances significantly).

From my perspective, I would hate to sell an normal at a higher price because it is possibly het for a trait. Although, I certainly see the side of the argument that you can charge more for the possibility that the animal carries the genes.

Excellent posts thus far, I really like hearing everyone's thoughts on the issue.

Kyle

Very well presented, it is tough to tell what is passed through on a breeding!! As Craig said

"i guess the thing is if you can get say 6 possible hets for the same price as a 100%het and do not mind doing the leg work to prove them out then it would be worth it but you definitely have to know what the parents backround is before you buy."

It is important to know about the parents I agree 100% on that!!! Good post Kyle it was great to read all that was brought up!