David Freeman Carolina Classic Dragons

CarolinaClassicDragons
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 360
Name : David Freeman
CarolinaClassicDragons is at reputation level 150 - 249CarolinaClassicDragons is at reputation level 150 - 249
Trader Rating: (23)

Re: 2 Female Dragons
It is david@carolinaclassicdragons.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
hey dave, just keeping you in the loop. i worked a double shift today because of that clown quitting on us without notice. tomorrow is supposed to be my day off and im hoping and praying it stays that way so you can have a friday morning delivery. just dont anna leave you hanging with whats going on i sent this to your email but i got a failure notice back. i duno what goin on if maybe you gave me the wrong email

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
I really do not like this PM format. Please update me via email at david@carolinclassicdragons.com

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
hey david, a guy called in work today and just quit with no notice so i am still at work as im sending this. im hoping to have enough time to race home and maybe catch ups or fedex. i have been calling my fiance at work to see if she could go home and ship them out but so far shes not out of work yet either. please bare with me on this i do apologize very much for the delay. if you end up going to the BOI about it i would completely understand. you want your animals and i want to get them to you but this guy completely scewed us over here at work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Thanks. I look forward to receiving them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
10 am or 12pm i have never had an issue with usps
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
So is there a guaranteed time for delivery with USPS? I hate when people ship with USPS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
usps

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
What service are you using?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
holliday today, couldnt ship so they will go out tomorrow


Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Are you shipping today? My cell is 919-645-8759 Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
i got into a BOI thing over this male that i bred to both females.../a year ago i got him in a trade and i was promised this male was 100% het hypo 100% het trans....well over a year later and lots of babys from these females and not one visual hypo or visual trans....so this male was not het for anything, so even tho i was told the BB trans is het hypo i wasnt willing to put my back on the line which is why i posted her as poss het hypo....but i wouldnt be suprised in anyway if she pumped out hypo trans babys for you....what day is good for you next week and i can make it happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
So you bred the one possible hypo female this year to a male that was not het or visible hypo? So you were not able to prove her het hypo? What day do you want to ship next week?

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
awesome sounds great... my paypal email is mdskillz1717@yahoo.com name is anthony prosper it should show it when you go to send the $

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Sounds good, $800 shipped. Pm me your Paypal and I will send the money.

Thanks!
David

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
they will be guarenteed live arrival as long as your there on the first attempt...i was really looking to walk with 750$ out of them 2...would we be able to do 800$ shipped to your door tuesday morning? i can assure you in person they are both just as gorgeous in person as they are in pictures if not better with great personality. i know your big in citrus dragons and there babys all came out very high yellows and oranges and that was with a red male, if you put them with one of your crazy citrus leathers i promise you that youd be a very happy man lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Most on here are full of shit. I will Paypal you $750 for both shipped. I am assuming you know how to ship these safely and that I have guaranteed live arrival...right? I only buy high end dragons and these look nice. Hoping these are nice. Just let me know and I can send money now.
Thanks,
David

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
there still here....what was your offer, i deleted my pm's...i posted a new ad today basically saying first come first serve so i have alot of ppl asking me about them....did you want both or did you really just want 1 or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
I am here and can Paypal you now if they are available.

Thanks!
David

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
you dont have online up there im assuming to use paypal...before you sent this i finally did get a guy who offered me the 850$ i originally posted for...weather he has the money or not is a different story. i guess let me know when you can paypal me and ill tell you if this guy has already paypal'd me..i need the $ for the weekend so i dont have much time to spare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
I want them but I am in the mountains until tomorrow night with horrible coverage. Hope u still have them then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
other ppl are playing games...i can do 750 for the 2 females for you if you want them...i need the $ asap

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Please do not wait on me. Apparently this guy will not have payment to me for a couple of days now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by yourbeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaClassicDragons
Hi Anthony,

I am very interested. I am waiting on a guy that is supposed to make a Paypal payment to me and when that goes through, I would like to see if we can work out a deal.

Thank you!
David
Any word on the guy sending you the paypal money, id like to have these guys moved asap. im trying to go in a first come first serve order but i cant wait to long if somone else comes along with cash in hand.
__________________

Dave, not sure why you come into a thread guns a blazin when i clearly didn't blast off at you at all in any previous post's made by me. you have been on fauna and should know the difference between an inquiry and a bad guy thread. this was simply an inquiry to see what other members of the fauna community had to say about the situation. its funny how all of the sudden the pics were taken BEFORE you ran her under water, when on the phone you clearly said you immediately put her under the water. you also never mentioned a conference call until this moment right now? you told me you got the box opened it and immediately tried to revive her. now i understand that's hear say due to the fact it was during a phone call which is why i said i did not want to do any of this on the phone. everything else is there. i kept in the best contact i could for my situation at hand. i did NOT come in here and blast you as a bad guy what so ever so why so defensive Dave? you can post all of the PM's and emails as well i have nothing to hide, so as you said with that awesome original catch phrase "game on"...i guess? i didnt know i was playing a game. just asking for advice and opinions from fauna, that's why the BOI inquiry is here isnt it?

as far as pointing fingers and you bringing up tom, he really has nothing more to do with this situation outside of printing me a shipping label.

Okay, I am back...

Please note in the string of PM's that Anthony just posted how he at one point was willing to sell me these two for $750 and then later came back asking for $800. I didn't try to negotiate and have him stick with the $750 he originally said, I just paid him the $800. I knew he was in a financial crisis of some sort and that was the only reason he was selling the dragons in the first place.

So back to today... I get off the phone with Tom and start taking pics. I then remove the dead dragon and start looking for the second dragon. She was in a snake bag and I could feel her moving so I immediately felt relieved. I ran some luke warm water as I always do to hydrate the dragon after the flight. As she soaked, I went back and got the dead dragon and I just couldn't believe it. Deep down, I was hoping that just maybe there was some life in there somewhere. I dabbled some of the water on her head to let it run down to her mouth to see if there was any reaction at all. Unfortunately, there wasn't.

At this point, my attention turns to the girl that is soaking. I notice that she is no where near the quality of trans that the girl that died was. I was really upset as I had plans for the girl that died as I specifically wanted her due to the quality of trans she was. The girl soaking was what I call a partial trans. Slightly opaque skin and she doesn't have solid black eyes. Having the dead dragon right there I was able to compare and was just sick that such a gorgeous dragon had to die due to a mistake in packing. I had told Tom on the phone earlier that the one I wanted the most was the one that died. The one living wasn't a high quality trans. Tom agreed and he even told me that he questioned Anthony when he saw the two dragons saying " I thought you said you were shipping two trans dragons, this one is not trans."
Anthony doesn't recall this.

So, Anthony thinks the dragon that made it is worth more. He thought I only deserved $300 out of $800. I think the one that died is worth more. Subjective and it is all opinions. That is why I emailed Anthony and told him that if he felt so strongly that the one that lived was more valuable than $400 that I would immediately ship her back and he could turn around and sell her for the $500 or whatever he thought she was worth and he could refund me the full $800. Of course, he turns this offer down. Why, because most would not pay $500 for this hypo, partial trans dragon.

The part that bothers me the most about Anthony bringing this up here (without telling me too) is that after the string of emails today and him slamming me and telling me how ignorant and disrespectful I am, (I had had enough of the emails since so much can be read into them) I ask that he call me on my cell and he does. We have a good conversation and he states that he was really glad that he could hear me vs. just reading an email as you can pick up so much more and he could tell that I was a good guy. I told him that I got very frustrated on Friday with the late communication and three days in a row without receiving the dragons. Missed work, the whole bit. I was also not happy that he didn't communicate with me last night and provide tracking information. And how was I to know that Tom had ended up sending the dragons? I didn't have a clue they lived near each other and knew each other. I really thought Tom had messed up or was sending me some superworms or something for an early Christmas. Never thought that the dragons Anthony was supposed to be sending me via USPS would have come from Tom via UPS. He agrees to refund $400 and I tell him, Anthony, I can tell it won't be easy for you to do this all at once. Why don't you take your time and just send me $100 a week for 4 weeks or whatever works better for you. He was thankful that I would offer that.

So...I think everything is over and done and then I start getting emails from customers that I need to take a look at the Fauna BOI. Wow. I lost a lot of respect in the last hour for you Anthony. I am not happy that I am having to stay up and waste my time defending myself on here.

Originally Posted by yourbeat

Dave, not sure why you come into a thread guns a blazin when i clearly didn't blast off at you at all in any previous post's made by me. you have been on fauna and should know the difference between an inquiry and a bad guy thread. this was simply an inquiry to see what other members of the fauna community had to say about the situation. its funny how all of the sudden the pics were taken BEFORE you ran her under water, when on the phone you clearly said you immediately put her under the water. you also never mentioned a conference call until this moment right now? you told me you got the box opened it and immediately tried to revive her. now i understand that's hear say due to the fact it was during a phone call which is why i said i did not want to do any of this on the phone. everything else is there. i kept in the best contact i could for my situation at hand. i did NOT come in here and blast you as a bad guy what so ever so why so defensive Dave? you can post all of the PM's and emails as well i have nothing to hide, so as you said with that awesome original catch phrase "game on"...i guess? i didnt know i was playing a game. just asking for advice and opinions from fauna, that's why the BOI inquiry is here isnt it?

You don't understand why I come into a thread ready to defend myself? You are something else Anthony. You question my integrity...you question everything. Staging the picture of the dead dragon? What? You get off the phone with me this afternoon and all is well and you thank me for taking the time to talk. Next thing I know you are on here accusing me of things. You didn't ask specific questions earlier today on the timing of everything. I contacted Tom because it was his name, address, and phone number on the shipping label and I had no phone number for you. I wanted to hear from Tom because at least I know a little about him and know him to be a stand up guy. Review your own questions and then ask yourself why I would want to defend myself.

so here is where my question comes in, Dave has been in the business long enough to Know about situations like this.
1) why would you contact Tom about animals that you knew were mine.
2) why would it take you over 2 hours to contact me in an email to tell me about my animal being a DOA.
3) why run it under cold water to try and "revive it"
4) why stage the picture of the dead animal and try to make it seem like the original position when you just told me you ran it under cold water first?

Let's check out some facts here... I think Dave Freeman understands dragons and how to care for them... The simple fact that Dave loves his hobby and his business and cares about the quality of his dragons speaks volumes. Look at that poor dragon that died... it was beautiful... That said any question on what he did when receiving a dying or dead dragon plays zero part in any of this...

And i'm sorry anyone with the email mdskillz1717 and pictures of guns does not give me faith in a dragon breeder of quality and also bringing it on here to discredit someone instead of dealing like mature adults over a business deal gets zero respect from me. If Dave sent me a dead dragon he would gladly compensate for it. The same should be done in this deal. Yes it is a bummer for both parties but you know what... think about the dragon. She had zero say in it . - Good luck.

Dave, Do you have any pictures of the dragon that lived? If the point of discontent is the worth of each dragon, a few pictures for the members to compare might help.

You say the one that died is the more expensive dragon and the OP says it is the one that lived. So maybe with a few pics of the live one, some of this he said, he said could be cleared.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Dave, Do you have any pictures of the dragon that lived? If the point of discontent is the worth of each dragon, a few pictures for the members to compare might help.

You say the one that died is the more expensive dragon and the OP says it is the one that lived. So maybe with a few pics of the live one, some of this he said, he said could be cleared.

I do not have a picture of the one that lived. Anthony does. I can get some good ones tomorrow if it really matters. Point is, I had a specific plan for the dragon that died as it was a higher quality trans IN MY OPINION. I was going to breed it to a het trans male. I can tell you from experience that taking a het to a partial trans doesn't result in the kind of offspring I like to produce. So, the dragon that died is more valuable to me. So maybe some on here think a visible hypo is more valuable. See where I am going here? It is all subjective. I have agreed to accept $400 and split it down the middle. Anyone, including me, giving their opinion on value, is just that, giving their opinion. If Anthony is so convinced that the living dragon is worth more, then why doesn't he just let me return the dragon and he refund me in full and then he sells the dragon for what he thinks it is worth? This offer was given to him earlier today but he didn't want to do it.

Here are the emails that went back and forth earlier today... First one is actually the last one from Anthony so you may want to start at the bottom...

well if tom told me she was a partial trans then it must have been whispered to me when i was in a different room. ill tell you what, since you are by far the more ignorant person i have ever had to deal with in my life ill have your 400$ in your paypal asap. i have seen people get drug through the mud who talk with more respect then you do. i guess it may be because you feel like you have been around for a while so you can talk to people any way you want and be rude and disrespectful and bully your way into what you want, i heard so many bad things about you after you paypal'd me that money, and people were right i shouldn't have dealt with you. this was a clear freak accident. your talking to me like i purposely did it and that i told you your not getting anything back for it. i dont know who you think you are talking to me like that "paypal me by this afternoon" it takes days to transfer money IN and OUT of paypal, i don't keep money sitting in my paypal account. you will have your money in your account the SECOND paypal tells me its available. i hope you can buy a little respect with the 400$ so next time a freak accident occurs you don't act like such a rude person. i have been in far worse situations then this where people have sold me fake double hets then a year later i prove them fake. and i have never gotten on someone like this and have been this ignorant i gave them time to fix it before i did anything. you really represent this HOBBY in a terrible way with how you talk to people. you should probably take a step back, because these are things i heard before i dealt with you and now they are things i know personally. the immediate second that money is available to send you on paypal you will have it in your account. good luck with everything with the dachiu girl.

From: David Freeman <dfreeman3@nc.rr.com>
To: anthony prosper <mdskillz1717@yahoo.com>; tc@tnddragons.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Dead Citrus Trans

Who shipped these dragons isn't that big of a deal although it is always a concern of mine especially when shipping adults. Communicating about how they were shipped and providing accurate tracking information IS important. With all due respect to Tom, I NEVER ship adults in bags and never will. Plenty of people do and I have now seen death and broken backs from it.

You and I completely disagree on which of these dragons is the cheaper of the two. And you know what, I am not going to get into an argument over it. This dragon that lived is a hypo PARTIAL trans and it is clear to anyone with any experience. She DOES NOT have solid black eyes but I am not even using that as a basis for my conclusion. Tom even said to me that he mentioned to you she was a partial trans. When I am planning trans breeding projects, I NEVER breed a partial trans to a het trans dragon as they turn out inferior. Plain and simple.

To prove my point, I tell you what... I will send her back to you and you can go out and ask $500 for her and make more money. You refund me the full $800 and I will ship her right back to you today.

Otherwise, Paypal me the $400 by this afternoon.

On 10/18/2011 12:43 PM, anthony prosper wrote:
> David, first of all, i told you she would be there 100% Tuesday. whether or not it was tom shipping or not shouldn't really make a difference. i know tom personally and he lives close so i had him do the label provide the box and packing etc. i didn't think it was a big deal honestly. i have NO idea how she made it to the top of the box when she was zip tied into the bag, that's mind blowing for me. i don't know why your giving me this attitude over something that was obviously not my fault. how many dragons have you seen rip through a bag during shipping? as you can see she is in good color weight and health so i don't know how she got out or what went wrong. obviously yes im going to rectify the situation, but asking for half of your money back when the cheaper of the 2 females is the one that died seems a little wrong to me. the visual hypo trans is worth more money then the trans that died so why would you receive half of your money back. that doesn't seem very fair to me. i absolutely want to rectify the situation asap but the hypo trans girl was by far the more expensive of the 2 so i think asking for 400$ back on the cheaper dragons harsh. and as far as the other dragon her eyes are black, so why is she a partial trans? if your telling me that a visual hypo trans is worth less then a trans poss het hypo, then i guess that's just your opinion. im not looking to screw you in this situation or have this go through a long drawn out process, so i would personally say that 300$ would be a more accurate number, i wish these things would have been discussed but since they were sold together we never discussed "well if one dies you get a certain amount of money returned", and i don't think there's a gold standard on how this situation works. im honestly in complete shock she somehow got through that bag, if she stayed in the bag she would probably be fine, but i guess bad things happen sometimes and here we are. but like i said i definitely want to fix the situation and not have a long process about it but at the same time im not looking to lose alot of money on dragons i feel were sold cheaper then they were worth to begin with. so the end question is, either you agree the hypo trans is worth more money or you dont. i am very sorry to see this girl pass away because she was by far one of my favorite dragons that i have had, she had an awesome personality. im sure it wasnt fun for you to see a dead animal either, for business reasons and the fact that most of us tend to be all around animal lovers in general. please let me know if the offer of returning the 300$ is acceptable to you, and i will transfer the money into my paypal to have it returned.
>
> From: koiboy <dfreeman3@nc.rr.com>
> To: anthony prosper <mdskillz1717@yahoo.com>; tc@tnddragons.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:13 PM
> Subject: Dead Citrus Trans
>
> Anthony,
>
> I was surprised to see a box show up this morning (Finally!) with Tom's contact information on it. No communication from you at all that this was happening. I even emailed you last night to confirm you were shipping and heard nothing back.
>
> Unfortunately when I opened the box, I find the citrus trans female laying on top of the packing material sprawled out dead. I couldn't believe it. Sad, very sad, on many fronts. I really hate that this dragon died the way she did. The partial trans girl was still alive and looks to be okay.
>
> I am really running out of patience with this whole transaction. Obviously I am not going to pay $800 for a partial trans female. I wouldn't even pay $400 for this dragon if I was purchasing it alone. I really wanted that nice citrus trans het hypo girl and she is what made me move forward with this deal.
>
> Please refund me $400 to my Paypal ASAP. David@carolinaclassicdragons.com. I will not wait long to receive this money. I am giving you a break by just asking for $400 so I hope you see this as an opportunity to make right and move on and not have this thing blow up.
>
> Pictures are attached.

It's hard to deal with doa's because it's a big loss to both parties, but it's the chance you take when shipping, and you have to make agreements to stand by. Really pretty female too. Such a shame. If she got out of the bag and was on top next to the heatpack, she probably overheated, or suffocated as the heatpacks can suck the air out of a box without enough airholes.
Imo, Dave did notify you within a reasonable amount of time. It doesn't matter if he tried to revive her. I'd be more concerned if he didn't care enough to try. I don't remember if the price included shipping, but if it did, I'd deduct shipping costs and refund half of the balance.
:eek3: