Joe Pierce (BAD GUY)

As some of you may know, I worked out a partnership deal with Joe Pierce last year where he would sell my 2007 hatchlings. It is with great reluctance and regret that I am writing to you today to let the corn snake community know that our partnership has turned out badly. I know this is probably surprising to you. Believe me when I say that it was to me also, given what I perceived as Joe’s good reputation within the herp community and my own good relationship with him (multiple purchases, trades and breeding loans) over the past several years. Let me take a few moments of your time to explain how this sequence of events transpired.

I sent a large shipment of hatchlings to Joe in the beginning of September. He advertised on his 2007 price list that he would be selling my snakes (see his post copied below). We even met – for the first time, in person – in Hamm, Germany in October while we were both coincidentally attending the same show. He sent me an initial partial payment in October for animals he had sold up to that date. Everything seemed to be going fine. I then sent him a second shipment of hatchlings, plus an adult for a 2008 breeding loan, on October 31st. I emailed on November 1st asking if the shipment arrived – no response. At that point I did not hear from him for 5 months, despite countless emails and many phone messages left by me, all unreturned. Initially, I thought something might have happened to Joe. But I subsequently found out that he was fine, yet he would not respond to my inquiries, all of which were simply asking what was going on, and was he all right.

Finally, at the end of March, I saw that Joe was back to posting on forums, so I realized that he was simply ignoring me. At that point, I decided to go somewhat public by emailing a number of people in the corn snake community, advising them of what was transpiring with Joe. Then, and only then, did I finally hear from him. He told me he had problems with shipments of snakes to Europe, and said he intended to honor his agreement with me. He returned the adult on breeding loan, and around 15 remaining hatchlings that were left – all of which, incidentally, were barely larger than new-borns, so he obviously didn’t feed them much. I have asked him how he intended to settle our account, but he is again back to ignoring my attempts at communication. Maybe he thinks that by ignoring me this will all go away.

So in summary Joe is not giving me a complete accounting of what he sold, not sending me the money for my share of those sales, and is not paying me for animals that he kept back to add to his breeding stock. In the long run, I don’t know what his intentions are, but this complete lack of any communication makes me suspect the worst.

Let me conclude by stating the obvious - if this can happen to me, it can also happen to any of you. Our relationships with each other are built on trust, and if that trust is violated by someone who we all perceive to be a solid individual and a major player in the corn snake world, and who then turns out to be unscrupulous, then everyone suffers and our hobby/business is diminished as that trust erodes away. In fact, anyone who is a major player in the business (which Joe is) should have an even higher standard of business practices, not sink to this level. This whole experience has been a tremendous disappointment to me, because I always operate on the premise that other people that I deal with basically have good intentions. So to be burned by trusting someone like Joe is quite deflating – by the betrayal, beyond the money and the snakes.

And yes, in answer to the obvious question, I have basically pleaded with Joe to simply contact me so I didn't have to take this step. Airing this unpleasantness to all of you is not something I want to do.

Thanks for your time.

Rich Hume




Copied from Joe’s 2007 price list post:

When I think of Striped Bloods, I think of Rich Hume. Rich was the first to produced the morph, and to prove out his stock to actually be “Striped” Bloods. Rich is one of the most respected breeders in our business and has the highest quality stock available.

I am very please to announce that Rich and I have came to an agreement for Corn Snakes A live to offer his stock for sale. I will guarantee all stock sold with the same guarantee as my own. In addition to Rich’s Striped Bloods, all other stock produced by Rich will be available from Corn Snakes Alive! I know I will be holding some of his stock back for myself.

Wow.. I dont know what to say..... Sorry Rich. I hope Joe comes to his senses and contacts you before another good guy goes bad.....

Well, I was very surprised to hear about this incidence. Unfortunately, I guess it may have come a little late for me.

Not long ago, Joe had a big sale on adult animals he felt would be appropriate for breeding this year. I ended up e mailing concerning three female candidates I had in mind. Two were sold, but Joe let me know a few days after I had originally e mailed him and told me he would be updating his list. He did so, I picked some different females.

He was very honest saying how he felt the snakes were condition wise. Two he said were on the thin side from last year's breeding and brumation, but he felt they would be candidates to breed later in the year. The third he admitted he felt was underweight but with heavy feeding she should plump up enough for this year.

The general transaction after that went fairly smoothly, he got my payment immediately and sent the snakes when he said he would. I was disappointed though when they arrived. All three snakes had obvious respiratory infections. They would sneeze and wheeze with popping noises while breathing. Not only that but all three were below 300 grams, two well below that mark.

I emailed Joe immediately letting him know of the situation and asking his advice on weather to take them <or one of them> to the vet or just warm them up and feed frequent small meals, etc. I told him I wasn't interested in argueing or publicly announcing the event, but just wanted his experience and advice. There was never a response.

The snakes all ate well every four days for about a month and a half, sometimes seeming to be much better other times, sneezing here and there. Then two of the three stopped eating, they still haven't continued eating, Unfortunately I now feel I know the reason, they are gravid

So that's my experience with Joe, he didn't directly do anything wrong I guess, but I've not seen sneezing, and popping that severe after just one day in transit I doubt it was the trip that caused all of it...

Rebecca

ps- I have dealt with Rich Hume a number of times and have found him to be completely honest and easy to deal with. Always helpful when I needed him to be! I'm sorry you had to go through this Rich...

Rich Hume & I have worked on multiple projects together in the past 13 years. In my opinion Rich is one the most honorable people I know. Joe Pierce should be ashamed of himself for taking advantage of Rich's honesty & integrity.
Vin Russo
Cutting Edge Herpetological Inc.

I have known Rich Hume for nearly 15 years and he has proven time and time again to be one of the most honest guys in this hobby. I have been to his home and i can attest that he maintains one of the finest herp collections in the state of NY and he works very hard to maintain the quality of his animals. For his animals to be stolen after he put his trust in Joe is just unthinkable.

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH JOE PIERCE!!!!

~ Mike Russo

wOw! I know both Rich and Joe and have always found both of them to be a cut above the others. Since I know Rich, I believe him. He'd never even discuss this with anyone until all avenues were exhausted; let alone post this. Knowing Joe as I do, something must be wrong here. I am positive Joe will fix this! Joe, if you're reading this, let me know what I can do to help put a bandage on this. Whatever it is, I know there will be a favorable conclusion.

This is very unfortunate. I don't have much to say about Rich Hume that hasn't already been written here. I've been a customer of his on multiple occasions, and I've conducted a breeding loan with him, and he's as professional as they come. His unfailing integrity, honesty, and passion for the hobby has served as an inspiration for me personally. If every breeder/seller were like him, the BOI wouldn't be necessary.

I have zero doubt about his account of this situation. In a way, I wish I did. To be fair, I had a good high-dollar (for me) transaction with Joe Pierce a couple of years ago. But if he'll treat Rich in the manner that has been described, I can never trust him again. I'd like to see Joe's side of this, but I can't imagine any explanation that would make his actions excusable. Still, I really hope that Joe can make things right with Rich and put forth the effort to restore his reputation.

Rich Sorry that it had to come this far! I'm pleased to hear that you received your adult animal back! I've purchased several animals from Rich in the past all were well represented & in perfect health.Transactions that were flawless. I've also dealt with Joe many times in the past.
The animals that I received from Joe were also well represented & in good health, a few times they were smaller in size than you would expect for their given age. I have also purchased a couple adults from Joe that were proven hets from some of his striped lavender projects. So far they are still unproven after 3 seasons. Who knows maybe they will finally prove out this year.
I was prepared to purchase a Caramel Bloodred hatchling from Joe just about the time when I first received Rich's email. In retrospect I'm glad that I didn't complete the purchase. I will wait for Rich to produce one this year instead.
Joe I really hope you take care of this with Rich. Until that happens you have lost my respect & any future business.
Tom Thompson

I have known Rich Hume for many years now. He is the most nice person you will ever meet. He is my competition here in NY and at the White Plains Herp Show and our tables are back to back to top it all off. We send people back and forth to eachother in if we dont have a certin morph. I have the up most respect for him. He is a man of his word, very honest person . Well that is what I have to say about my competition. How many times Mcdonals has something nice to say about buger king and vise-versa. I have never heard Rich Hume to say a bad thing about anyone untill this post and I know him for over 10 years

I have heard many horror stories here in this country and from Eroupe about the other party involved. What a shame Rich has to go to this extreem to get justice. Shame on you Joe ,Do the right thing. You reputation is going further down hill every year. When will you realize this is a tight nit community and the word is spreading about your bad dealings with people here and Eroupe. You are digging your own grave in this business .

I have known Rich on a personal level for years now. He is the most honest and down to earth person around. I believe every word he says and I know it must have bothered him to have to bring this in a public forum as a last resort. Rich has integrity and class that goes way beyond the norm!!! If you made a mistake Joe, come clean and make it right. Its never too late to make things right. I hope this works out for you Rich. Keep your head up as I know this must be very difficult for you to have to deal with. I hope anyone who reads this post can see that Rich is one of the best around. Mike Panichi