Joe Pierce (BAD GUY)

It is terrible that it has to come to this.While not having any bad experience with Joe,it has gotten a bit peculiar at times.I did send Joe a few snakes last year that was a significant order.I did get paid ahead of time but could get no confirmation of there arrival.This is about the time that Joe disappeared for a while.I was left assuming that a 4500.00 order had made it there okay.I have not heard from Joe since that time.
I quess people would just like to know what is going on.
I would have to agree with pretty much everyone else.If Rich says that is the way it happen,then you can bet that is what happened.
Thanks Rob

Hello!

Our story:
In 2007, we imported several animals from Joe (for $2300). In the beginning, our contact was smoothly and well. After the payment he no longer answered, until a week before the Hamm show.
We changed photograph on each other and talked about details.
Picked them all up in Hamm and went home.

The yearling’s where really very small!
From the beginning several animals didn’t eat. We checked 6 of the animals at a vet and 5 of those 6 animals had parasites. After treatment it didn’t get any better unfortunately.
A couple days afterwards we visited the veterinary again, with other animals from Joe, and again sicknesses!
In total of his animals, 4 different sicknesses were observed!
1st: Flagelats. Wasn’t surprising with the import to Europe, so that was easy to heal.
2nd: Longworms.
3rd: Worms in the intestine.
4th: A bacterial infection in the stomach.

Before we know what all the problems where, we first helped them against the flagelats.
After that cure, they where still regurging and dying so we went to the vet. again.
And now they saw longworms, another cure for that aswell.
3rd visit we did a bacterial research of the faeces. That’s how we found our 3rd problem.
In that research he also found wormeggs in the faeces, so there was a different type of worms active aswell.

Eventually we had to treat our whole collection. But the first animals had already died, and the other where going the same way.


We mailed and informed Joe from the first week and asked what to do.
But no response by mail, pm, or telephone.
Finally he reacted short for the Hamm show of March 2008.
This is the mail:


Re: Order for Hamm
________________________________________
I will take care of any problems you have had with the snakes you purchased from me, but I am not coming to Hamm myself, so any replacements now would be difficult.

I took a look at your groups personal messages to me on both forums and my emails.

All of the snakes with health problems, came from Rich Hume or Carol Huddleston. I had some problems with some others I got from them too. I was able to take care of most problems myself without going to the Vet.

I don't think we should try to replace Rich Hume Stock with Rich H stock since you have already had problems with it. All of the ones I offer for sale are doing very well here, but much of the orders that went to Hamm in Sept, came to me shortly before it was shipped. There obviously is some problems in some of their stock, but stress and shipping them all around the world hasn't helped. I kept back quite a few of Rich H Stock and over all they are all doing very well now. I did have a couple of un explained deaths and others who bought directly from Rich had feeders turn to non-feeders and then die. Flagelets are so common that testing for them always shows some. It is treated easily.

I will never use Codom ever again. Too many people expect Bloods for half price. The gene is variable co-dominant and Hets can look Normal all the way to almost perfect Bloods. I am sorry for any confusion my attempt at being more correct has cause.

I sent a lot of Rich H stock to Europe in Sept, I have only been notified of one other problem and we knew it was a non-feeder when sold. It never started eating and died. No other reports of problems came in, so you guys were very unlucky. Cross contamination is usually the cause of a lot of deaths in colonies. We can not place blame here, but this is why I never offer any food item to any snake that has been in the cage with another.

Send me a list of your complaints to my email address at joepierce@frontiernet.net and I will work them out with you. I will be gone until Sunday morning with my family, so I can get to your email then.

Most of the Bloods from Rich Hume on my list have already sold the first couple of days I posted the Sale. It is current as of now, but three other people are trying to buy some of the remaining.

Check out the list and see if there are other replacements that might interest you. The main problem I have with replacements, it my cost of $400 to replace a single snake. I never expect anybody to have any problems with the snakes I sell, so I have extended my normal warentee in the US to international shipments. Most others do not, and I can see why it can be a problem. The shipments can be in route for 11 days, and I have heard of some medical problems in some European colonies, just like we had a few years ago and still. Exposure to new bugs, with out immunity to them, can not be easy on them.

Like I said, send me a list of complaints to my email address and I will see what I can to about them.

Sorry for the lack of responce,

I really thought you guys were just small talking about your new snakes and not having problems. I get 100 of emails some days and I don't even open a lot of them. I will open up all of yours and get them in your folder.

Talk soon,
Joe






After that mail we got what seemed to be a solution!!!


We asked how he will solve this and we sent a list with what we gladly want for replacements. And a list sent with all animals which had died, we also wrote animals on the list which did NOT come from Joe, so that he really knew how big the problem was.
Then it became quiet, no more answers on pm, mail or telephone.

I have mailed Rich, knowing that he have had problems with Joe for some time. We told Rich that we believed him. We also sent all mails from Joe, so that he knew what our experience with Joe was.
Joe said in a mail that the sick animals came from Rich and Carol!!!

Total nonsense I know for sure. If we had imported from Rich or Carol, and there were problems with the animals, we would solve them together. That’s what honest and reliable breeders do (breeders like Rich and Carol).
To Rich and Carol; you have nothing to do with this problem at all.

Last week I bought a cornsnake from a breeder in the Netherlands. Which Joe knew aswell.
I don’t want to write any names of those other people. I asked that man if he also had heard anything from Joe. I‘ve told him our story, and he reacted scared. He told me that Joe has mailed HIM. With the question what kind of people WE were, to claim animals which Joe had not sold to us!
We did this so that Joe could see how far the sickness was penetrated in our collection!

OUR OPINION:
-We don’t want to accuse anybody.
-We think that Joe has not sent sick animals in question.
-We want honest solutions.
-We think that it certainly comes of Joe’s bad communication!!!
-We know that Rich and Carol are honest and reliable people.

WHAT WE WANT:
-A good solution for the problem.
-We don’t want to be compensated for everything.
-We want, honestly, back in contact with Joe!

LAST PART:
-Before the animals arrived to our collection it was free from illnesses!
-We’ve done everything that we could do, and have spent around $700/800 on veterinary-costs.
-Our collection is now fine.
-We do not want to make all emails public, but people who doubt this and don’t believe us are free to send pm, I will send all the correspondence with Joe to them.
-We’ll do a recall to Joe to take contact, and to solve the problems together.




Regards Johan and Niels

I have been at Rich Humes house many many times. Rich has the cleanest healthiest animals around...... bar none! Since this wasn't my battle and I just wanted to support Rich, I decided to not to post my bad experience with Joe Pierce until I read the above post. A few years ago Joe and I decided to conduct a breeding loan or a trade, I can't remember which it was. What I can remember is that the animals arrived in a nasty used box and were so sick with a respiratory illness that I called him up and told him the snakes were being sent back forthwith. They were weezing so bad I didn't even want them in my room. I sent them back and that was it. At the time, I thought it was maybe because they came straight out of brumation and were shipped shortly after but as I look back on it now, and having heard a ton of similar horror stories, I realize that its Joe's husbandry techniques(or a lack thereof) that had these animals sick and not brumation. Anyone reading these posts, especially one which contains one of Joe's infamous saved and shared emails should know that any animal that leaves Rich Humes house is leaving in tip top shape. If they got sick, they caught it on the west coast! Mike Panichi

To all my fellow reptile enthusiast,

Rich and I go back about 20years. I remember meeting him for the first time, and thinking “What a Great Guy”. 20 years later I can still say ”What a Great Guy…!!!”

We have become best friends, and we have had numerous projects together. His knowledge about corn snakes has proven to be invaluable. Rich is a man of integrity, and sets high standards of behavior and morality for himself.

It’s a shame when things like this happen….It takes the wind right out of your sails…You feel like throwing in the towel. I myself have felt like throwing in the towel because of dealings like this. But Rich was there to encourage me and keep me going. Thanks Rich, keep the faith… He has to answer to a higher authority.

Shame on you Joe Pierce…all you had to do is call him……

Tony Carrozzo
Exotic Snakes LTD.

Well, I may as well jump in here too. I did a breeding loan with Joe Pierce to produce a bunch of Ultramel crosses and we were going to split the offspring. Long story short, I got the first shipment of snakes just fine. The second shipment (basically from the second clutches), all of a sudden he sold off the highest end animals from the group without asking. I called him on it, and he all of a sudden clammed up and refused to speak to me. After about a month of trying to contact him, he started posting on Cornsnakes.com again and still did not respond to my calls or emails. So I posted a similar bad guy thread there, and he turned around and posted that I was a horrible greedy nag who was only after as much money as possible (yadda yadda, lots of namecalling), and that's why he felt justified in not speaking to me. After lots of back and forth, some people siding with him and some with me, I finally said screw it, just send me "my share" of the hatchlings. It wasn't until... December? January? Something like that... where I actually got them, and we both agreed not to get in eachother's way again. The experience certainly soured me on doing breeding loans...

Needless to say, I don't think highly of Joe Pierce. This business with Rich Hume has only reaffirmed that sentiment.

Well I wanted to stay out of this but since my name was mentioned I'll put what I know in.

Joe did ship some snakes to Europe for me. If anyone contacted me wanting to ship overseas, I told them they first had to be a customer of Joe Pierce and they had to pay me directly. I made several transactions and got my money direct from the customers. After the shipment, NONE of the customers I worked with directly ever complained to me about problems with their animals. Joe did buy some animals from me that he needed to fill is own orders so if those transactions were satisfactory or not, I do not know. Honestly I heard nothing of all this until Rich H. emailed me.
My animals were not in Joe's hands until early September, not really long enough to spread worms/bacteria or to have had worms/bacteria spread to them. Especially since they were all housed in their own delis. The only thing I could imagine that could spread between 3 people's stock that quickly would be something they either ate or drank.

midnightline, I'm not mistaken didn't Joe have a Similar problerm with Carol Huddelson of low belly reptiles.

Carol You had a bad experance with Joe on a breediong loan. You had wrote that he sold your share or part of it to eroupe . I remember you posted it on cornsnakes.com

No I believe you are thinking of Kat Hall (midnightline). I worked out one breeding loan with Joe P. where I had the female. The female ended up not producing well and no viable offspring came of the breeding. Joe was very understanding of the whole thing as these things happen and that was the end of it. There really was no fault on either side.

Ok Carol, then I'm got the wrong person involved with Joe but got the right story, I remember it