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Old 08-01-2010, 05:17 PM   #1
Izoid
Big Apple Herp

I wanted to let everyone here know what my experience with Big Apple Herps has been.

In early May of 2010 I purchased a male Hypo Patel Boa. The snake was supposed to be a late 2008 or early 2009 animal. When the snake arrived at my house it weighed 92 grams. The animal went downhill very quickly and died within 12 hours.

I emailed Big Apple to let them know and to express my concern over the health and weight of this animal. They were very defensive of their Boa Managers experience and would not even entertain the idea that the snake was not well cared for. They really did not seem to be concerned with the animals death but with their reputation.

I spoke with Steven the next day and he informed me that the snake would be replaced with a new one. We agreed for him to send me a female because he had no males left. The snake arrived a few days later and was in worse shape than the original snake. She too weighed in at under 100 grams, was dehydrated, malnourished and had a stuck shed.

I called Steven immediately and he then told me that he had been mistaken regarding the snakes age, it was actually a late 09 animal. After several conversations with him he offered to refund me the purchase price of the animal if I shipped her back. This snake was so weal and sickly that, in my opinion, would not have survived the return trip. I told him this and kept the snake.

Here we are, 2 months later, and the snake has passed away. I took her to the vet yesterday because she regurged and I was concerned. The vet looked at her and was amazed at her poor health. She was anemic and still was very thin. The vet took an x ray and determined that she had some type of problem with her colon. He commented that he thought it was likely a congenital defect that affected her ability to process her food properly, leading to anemia and the inability to absorb nutrients from her food. He gave her an enema, subcutaneous hydration and soaked her for an hour. She did not have any parasites. I was to take her back tomorrow for a follow up.

When I woke up this morning I found the snake dead in her cage. This was a long, painful, road for her. She ate every week but she never thrived. She did not gain weight and always had been lethargic.

I asled Big Apple to make this right as the vet felt it was congenital and that the snake was sick from the get go. There response was that since they had offered a refund before they would not be responsible for anything else. I have informed them that I would expect either a full refund or a store credit in the full purchase amount. If they do not agree I will take them to small claims court and request vet bill and necropsy cost in addition to the sales price.
 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:20 PM   #2
Izoid
Picture of the replacement on the day she arrived:



 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:27 PM   #3
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izoid View Post

I asled Big Apple to make this right as the vet felt it was congenital and that the snake was sick from the get go. There response was that since they had offered a refund before they would not be responsible for anything else. I have informed them that I would expect either a full refund or a store credit in the full purchase amount. If they do not agree I will take them to small claims court and request vet bill and necropsy cost in addition to the sales price.
I'm sorry your snake was ill. I think that you should not expect money once you decided to keep the snake after a refund was offered. You might have further negotiated for the cost of a vet visit, but it doesn't seem like you did that. Do you have emails?

Have you notified Big Apple? What is their TOS?

I'm sorry to hear about the snakes poor health. I've done biz with BA for goods not snakes and my transactions were always good. Perhaps they need more attention to that department, but I'd like to hear what they have to say.
 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:47 PM   #4
Izoid
I understand fully that I decided to keep the snake. The problem I had was that shipping the snake back would have been a death sentence in my opinion.

I also agree that I should not expect money back had the snake not had a congenital defect. If the snake was merely sick I could have gotten it care but since it was a birth issue there was no hope for the animal.

I feel that Big Apple should take responsibility for selling an animal with an internal birth defect that caused its death.

They have refused to make it right. They feel that since they offered the refund, they have no responsibility. Since they do not want to make it right I felt that others need to know how they do business. This is the 2nd snake from this litter that has died on me.

Do not buy animals, anything living, from Big Apple.
 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:49 PM   #5
Izoid
Hi Michael,

When you purchased the snake you indicated that you had concerns and we offered to take the snake back for a full refund. You declined that offer and decided to keep the snake. As we indicated at that time we would be unable to accept any further responsibility for the snake.

Sincerely,

Andy
Big Apple Pet Supply

Sent from iPhone 4


On Aug 1, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Izo Michael <m120@theizos.com> wrote:

Good Morning

Several month ago I purchased a Hypo Pastel boa from you and that animal died within 12 hours of arrival at my home. You replaced him with a female Hypo Pastel. When she arrived I notified you that she was in very bad condition, underfed and skinny. We exchanged several emails and I was concerned about the responses that I was getting. It seemed as though the companies reputation was more important to you than was the health of the animal. Finally, after speaking with Stephen, I was offered a full refund if I wanted to return the animal. I told Stephen that I did not want to do that, I didn't think the snake would survive another trip via Fededx.

I have struggled with this snake for the past several months. I was never able to rid her of 10% of the stuck shed, which in and of itself is not that much of an issue but she clearly had other underlying health issues. She never thrived. She ate on a regular basis but never gained weight. She would spend all of her time on her hot spot and was quite inactive. She has regurged 2 of her last 3 meals and I took her to the vet yesterday. He performed an x ray which showed some type of blockage in her. He soaked her, gave her an enema and was able to get some of the blockage out of her.

He stated that he felt she may have some type of deformity in her colon that is keeping her from properly passing her feces. He also feels that whatever the issue is that it is congenital.

I took her home last night and this morning when I woke up she had passed. It is my feeling and that of my vet, that this snake had some sort of health issues from birth. Her failure to thrive, she was anemic coupled with her constant search for heat would indicate some sort of metabolic issue.

I will ask that a necropsy be performed on her to determine what the issues were. I would like to know what Big Apple will do if this is determined to be a congenital defect. Please let me know what your preposed solution is.

Mike Izo
 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:49 PM   #6
Izoid
Should I even bother with the necropsy given that Big Apple does not plan to do anything about this regardless of the results?
 
Old 08-01-2010, 05:59 PM   #7
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izoid View Post
I

They have refused to make it right. .
They did offer to make it right, they offered a refund which you turned down.
For whatever reason that the snake was ill, you were given the opportunity to get your money back while the snake was alive. You kept it for two months and then it died. You can't expect remuneration after months of possession, and after you were already offered a refund on a live animal

Have you notified them of this thread?
 
Old 08-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #8
Lucille
I sent them notification of this thread.

Look, we all hate scammers. But that isn't what happened here. You can't reasonably weigh a seller down with a permanent warranty. No one would ever set up a business under those circumstances.

You say (we have no proof, no vet papers from you) that this was a congenital illness. Whatever it was, the seller promptly offered a refund when you first notified them of what you say was the snake's condition (without vet papers, how do we know whether the death of two baby snakes in a row was not due to your husbandry?)
You decided to hedge your bets, keep the snake, if it lived, you had a snake, if it died, you figured you would go after the seller for money.

But in my opinion, the seller by offering a refund gave you the opportunity to get your money back. It was not, and should not be, a lifelong offer. The seller should not have to be responsible after two months. IMHO.
 
Old 08-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #9
Carlene16
I noticed on their website they stated the hypo pastel boas are grade A+ but that is obviously not the truth, that boa is clearly dehydrated I'm sorry about your bad experience, that's terrible that that's how they "care" for their boas. Maybe it was wrong of you not to accept the refund, but for someone who truly cares about the health of an animal, I feel like you knew it was best not to ship, the animal could have died in shipping. I will never buy from big apple herps, and I'm sure a lot of people won't after reading this. It was right of them to offer a refund, but the condition of their animals looks to be terrible.

If you want a nice healthy boa, buy from Sharon Moore from boastore.com
I got my girl from there and she's perfect in every way.

Again sorry this happened
But I don't think big apple herp will feel any need to make this right. Which is wrong in my opinion.
 
Old 08-01-2010, 07:04 PM   #10
Izoid
Thank you Carlene, I think you got what I was trying to say all along.

Unfortunately Lucille has chosen to make assumptions regarding my motivation without any idea of who I am or what I am all about. Please stop making statements about me as a person and what my intentions are, you have no idea.

I own 15 snakes, boas and balls, and my husbandry is spot on. I have only lost 2 snakes, ever. Both are from Big Apple, from the same litter. That alone should tell you something.

The issue here is not the money, if it were I would have taken the refund that was offered 2 months ago. It is about the animal and its health. Unfortunately, Big Apple does not have the same concern.
 

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