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Originally Posted by brrrman

See you in February victor.

Not sure if thats a good thing or not???

Somewhere in one of those long threads on Victor, he was criticized, by brrrman and others, because he never lets people see his facility, and in response, he told brrrman to drop by when he goes to Florida in Feb. I think it was a defensive dewlap puff on Victor's part, but brrrman seems to be taking him literally. It will be interesting to see if Vic lets him in.

Yeah he wouldn't let me come to his shop either. Thats why I had to meet him in the wal-mart parking lot. I didn"t like that too much and just thought that he was kind of like Chris and Sheila at Gulf Coast but they are very nice people and can be trusted. I didn't know who "Vic" was until I came back from meeting him and then read Erics reply to my inquiry.

Originally Posted by C.J. Vogler

Well I just met him in person to buy three female baby balls. It was a bit shady cause we had to meet at the local wal-mart to make the transaction??? Anyways I got the females and it's probably a good thing I did cause they are all very wrinkled and just not real healthy looking. One even came in a deli cup with potting soil in it!!! I am not pleased with the quality of animals he is selling and will not be buying from him again. That sucks to cause he is so close to where I live I thought I was going to have a nice guy close by but I guess not.

oh really then why did you send me this email after buying the snake? can you explain that?!?
Yeah better the guy with the money to get wet I guess. LOL Anyways next time if we do business again can you make sure the snakes are in a little better health. Just not so skinny I guess. For $20 I was kind of expecting the snakes to be a bit bigger like around 80 grams or so. Just an idea cause we live pretty close and repeat business is diffenitly a possibilty.

Thank you for the reply and I have already fed all three of them. Two of them took live pnikies and one I had to start feed and she swallowed it. Thank you fo rthe snakes but next time lets meet somewhere out of the rain. LOL

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:38:09 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com
the reason why he got the snakes for 20.00 each was because they were not in the best condition so i gave them to him at a reduced price. and if he was unhappy with the purchase he did not have to buy them he could have given them back to me and got his money back. also for the record we are not open to the public and we offer local customer deliver within reasonable distance. btw we dont charge a delivery fee! so i dont understand the complaining on here i guess i would expect this from a typical fauna customer.

the reason why he got the snakes for 20.00 each was because they were not in the best condition so i gave them to him at a reduced price.

Why were they in bad condition?

As far as letting people into his facility, home, or shop is totally up to him I don’t let anyone in my house before I know them or enough about them to track them down and stomp a mud hole out of their @SS if I was robbed. Literally only about four people in the reptile industry even know where I live. As far as the snakes, were they advertised to you as not in the best condition Chris? Because the ad I saw on craigs didn’t mention anything of being b grade or less then perfect and he was asking 25 not 30 seems these facts are a bit misconstrued. It’s unfortunate anyway you look at it but hard to make a good choice when your in the middle of a storm standing in the rain. Thankfully the snakes ended up in good hands and sounds they will make a recovery. It is the end of the season for Ghana farm babies and they either get better by now or really bad at this point. All in all I think you know what not to do again! Keep in mind there are many jobbers or jabrones out there claiming to be wholesalers or importers and if they are you can usually find out very easily if they are legit. I often laugh when I see the extent people go to make themselves look like a real rock n rolla! LMFAO! Its just so gangsta to be in the rep biz....I know I probably sound like a tard but I just had to say it!

I just want to clarify by getting better by now I mean have been here and are feeding. Getting worse because they have been sitting and not feeding or are problematic feeders or dehydrated.

RE: ball python babies‏
From:<IMG id=P___331749851 style="DISPLAY: none" webimdisplayStyle="inline"> christopher vogler (cjv3904@hotmail.com) Sent:Sat 6/27/09 9:02 AMTo: deathknight1182@aol.com
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P{padding:0px;}.ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}I don't think we need to be cussing in all the emails like that but you can carry your self anyway you want to. As far your last email what did you mean by the "white one"? I was simply trying to be civil and asked nicely if we ever did buisness again that I don't get the sick and dying snakes that didn't sell or atleast let me know that they are so and I can arrange for proper care of them before I pick them up. If your going to be a dick then don't email again and I will do the same for you. Our buisness together has been bitter and I won't be back for anything else you have to peddle straight form the boat. I don't care what color you are since I have bought and sold to just about all colors. So race is no issue for me. If I didn't want the skinny snakes, were you going to pay for my gas cause you didn't tell me the condition they were in before I left the house? I don't "bum fuck" anybody. They will do it themselves if given the chance. Just be clear when your going to be selling the "runts" and anyone who buys them will have no complaint cause they know what they are driving to pick up. I learned my lesson from this and I am now moving on so I think you should do the same. If you attack me in any more emails I will be posting them on the BOI. I don't want to cause you to have anymore threads than you already have going for you but I will if I think it needs to be started.

From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:42:43 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

Hi, this is Kenneth ya know the white one yeah. If you didn't want the damn snakes you shouldn't have taken them. You must have a doctorate in hypocracy. One minute you talk nice to me, then you bum fuck victor behind my back.
In a message dated 6/27/2009 8:18:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

I thought I got a deal cause I got more than one?? They were advertised for $25 each so at most I saved $15 which should take care of the 80 mile round trip I had to take to pick them up. I should owe you gas money?? Are you kidding me? I would have no problem going all the way to get them and it was your idea to meet "half" way. You should owe me gas money! I don't know what your email was trying to get across. What was the reason I got them Vic? You seem to know my interest better than me. I already said why I took them on fauna. They looked dehydrated and starved so I took them even though they looked so bad, only because I have a soft spot for animals that could be healthy but are otherwise not because of the lack of care of the human that "posseses" them!! I am not going back on anything I said on any site I said it on. Have a nice day Victor Revera.


From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:19:31 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

dude those were the last ones to be sold. sort of the runts of the litter. i normally dont sell them for $20.00 the price was reduced because they were thin. the normal price is $30.00 each so you saved $30.00 make sure that you tell them on fuana! the reason why you got them. btw if you where not happy with them you did not have to buy them. and the reason why we met in walmart is we are not open to the public! we strickly sell out of state and ship our animals next day but to save our local customers the shipping charge i deliver them within reasonable distance and i should have charged a deliver fee but i did not cause i am a nice guy. but then again after reading was i saw on fuana i dont know if i can be a nice guy again.

In a message dated 6/24/2009 11:37:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

Yeah better the guy with the money to get wet I guess. LOL Anyways next time if we do buisness again can you make sure the snakes are in a little better health. Just not so skinny I guess. For $20 I was kind of expecting the snakes to be a bit bigger like around 80 grams or so. Just an idea cause we live pretty close and repeat buisness is diffenitly a possibilty.

From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:38:09 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

yeah tell me about it, wanted to get out and meet you half way, but victor said he didn't want his car wet lol

In a message dated 6/24/2009 9:50:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

Thank you for the reply and I have already fed all three of them. Two of them took live pnikies and one I had to start feed and she swallowed it. Thank you fo rthe snakes but next time lets meet somewhere out of the rain. LOL

To: cjv3904@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: ball python babies
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:10:23 -0400
From: deathknight1182@aol.com

they are farm raised and i did feed them, but not lately so please feed them as soon as you can


-----Original Message-----
From: christopher vogler <cjv3904@hotmail.com>
To: deathknight1182@aol.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 6:10 pm
Subject: RE: ball python babies

.ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_2_a5224386-2cf4-4a88-9e4b-352279a0ba7d .EC_hmmessage P{padding:0px;}.ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_2_a5224386-2cf4-4a88-9e4b-352279a0ba7d body.EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}Hey Victor, I got the three female ball pythons from you this morning and didn't get a chance to ask a couple questions. I was wondering if these were imports or were they ch or cb-cb? I am just wondering cause I do plan to grow these out for breeding and could use a little back ground on them. Thanks. Also they were a little skinny and was wondering how they were and had they started to feed yet?

From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:57:44 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

lehigh acres, no we don't currently breed those ourselves

In a message dated 6/22/2009 12:41:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

Where are you located? Did you breed them yourself?

From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:29:51 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

60 dollars altogether for three

In a message dated 6/22/2009 12:22:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

How much for three females?

From: Deathknight1182@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:04:28 -0400
Subject: Re: ball python babies
To: cjv3904@hotmail.com

how many?

In a message dated 6/21/2009 9:28:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjv3904@hotmail.com writes:

** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
** More Info: http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html


.ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_2_a5224386-2cf4-4a88-9e4b-352279a0ba7d .EC_ExternalClass .EC_EC_hmmessage P{padding:0px;}.ExternalClass #EC_AOLMsgPart_2_a5224386-2cf4-4a88-9e4b-352279a0ba7d .EC_ExternalClass body.EC_EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}How many do you have and are they males or females? If you could give a discount I might be able to buy a few from you.

Victor and the White Guy,


Let me stick my two cents in if I may. Aside from all this arguing I just want to make clear a couple of things. If you plan to run a successful business in the reptile industry I would start pumping my breaks and quick because you are off to a real bad start. I understand the mentality that most people have when dealing in WC reptiles but you need to learn that the customer doesn’t. (By mentality I mean the wholesaler and importers mind set as to SOLD AS IS. YOU PAID FOR IT NOW IT’S YOURS!!) I know when I buy WC what to expect and secondly what to look for. The customer expects a shiny new car every time they purchase. Secondly I myself emailed you about an ad I ran across for CBB Mata Matas. In my email simply asked who breed them? Well your response was these are farm babies from Guyana. You completely misrepresented these as CBB which means captive born and breed implying they came from captive adults that were breed in a collector’s / breeders possession and laid and hatched in captivity. My point is I don’t think you were completely trying to mislead me but rather didn’t understand what you were advertising and how. You answered my email honestly indicating these weren’t true CBB. They should be labeled as farm babies or CH captive hatched. Look around at other guys sites like Mark Lucas and the terms of sale he posts. This is a very good example of how to let your prospective buyers know what they are dealing with and preventing this exact thing from happening. If you depend on this business as your source of income now would be the time to kiss a little @ss and maybe shoot him a couple free snakes and put it all behind you. I can get farm balls for 9-10 bucks still and they are feeding, I wouldn’t say it’s a big deal. Everybody makes mistakes and we are entitled to a bad day now and then. This is now on the BOI and will become a permanent reflection of your business for ever. I know in this day and age its getting harder to earn a buck and you net sells will but shot if you don’t take the good business sense approach to this matter. Chris has chalked it to a lesson learned and maybe you should do the same.

Just for the record it really doesn’t matter that you are white, white guy its 2009 already and I’m quite white so don’t make white people look like they act like Italians. No one is measured by race anymore just net worth. LOL. Just kidding all bullspit aside!


Hope you see this as some unbiased advice rather than an attack…Thanks for reading, Paul miller

Redfeet, it was Vic calling the customer white guy, not the reverse.

As for B grade animals, it is my understanding that B grade means imperfect, ie, missing tails, scars, runts, etc, NOT sick or emaciated, and those snakes look emaciated or close.

Vic, why hadn't you fed them

In awhile

??? That statement and the pics tell me that the allegations that you don't take proper care of your animals is true.

Is it common, accepted practice to sell freshly caught or imported animals without fattening them up or ridding them of parasites first?? If it is, then that practice should be examined, especially if these animals are being sold to customers who might not have the experience necessary to deal with the health issues. I have bought wc and imported animals, and they were in great shape for the most part because the seller wasn't a flipper, and made sure that the animals were well acclimated, wormed, and had good weight on them.