Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

Originally Posted by Chamco

Maybe so, but Bryon was there for six weeks, so should his indignation at the situation have moved him to action sooner if things are as we have been told?

OK so if I interpreted this wrong than what did you mean?

What if this? What if that?

We could play that game all day!! But when it comes down to it, evidence was provided and has not been denied or disclaimed. If its not true there is nothing to stop Allen from posting the truth. If he has read this thread, why no comment? You guys can play "Conspiracy Theory" all day, it doesn't change the facts.

Bryon,

I for one completely understand and believe what you are saying and believe your intentions to be honorable. I do not believe you to have any ulterior motive.

I too, if I were in your shoes, would have first tried to better the situation for those animals. Then if I was hamstrung in my efforts to do so and was forced by the animals owner to watch them live in such squaller I too would have brought this to the attention of the community.

I think you did everything right. You were newly hired to help with the animals and you thought that is exactly what you were going to get to do. Then when you found out that your new boss did not care about the animals, their health or his customers you took the next logical step. You made the community aware of the situation when you seen Allen had no intentions of changing how he ran his operation.

I personally applaud you for standing up for what you believe in and for doing what you felt was right.

Here's your statement relative to what you knew of Bryon's job from post #25:

Wow, I know you were pretty hyped about this job a couple of weeks ago. Sorry it turned into such a nightmare.

and I believe this to be the full context of where I referenced your statement in post #37:

..... Bryon was there for six weeks, so should his indignation at the situation have moved him to action sooner if things are as we have been told? We also have this from an acquaintance of Bryon's in post #25:

Its not so much that I question Bryon's motives, as I truly do not know. But I don't want to make conclusive assumptions as to it all either.

So, when you state this Hill 4803 in post #45:

Jim, please do not try to read anything into my posts that is not there.

Do me the favor and tell me what was read into it, or what other comments that I made of it that I have no recollection of making? I only copied it exactly as you had stated it. I copied it because it was the only other informed insight that we had about Bryon's employment at the time besides Bryon's own statements. You provided no additional context at the time, although you then did in post #45, as you deemed it needed more explanation?

To Bryon: Thanks for the further explanation. Exposes such as this are uncommon in the BOI, and certainly attract attention. While much context was presented in the "what" of your allegations, I was one who felt that more context about the "why" of it all was needed, if for no other reason than to eliminate some of the possibilities that I raised as to motivations. I am sure that it has been a busy 24 hours for you. I do have a lingering concern, and am not even beginning to assume that I know the answer (got that guys ... no assumption!)

It is clear that you became frustrated with the continuing lack of good husbandry, your inability to impact it as you thought necessary, and other concerns about Allen in general which troubled you. You made a decision to document all and bring it here. Did you give thought about telling Allen that you felt compelled to do an expose if he did not make drastic changes, and if so, what did you do and how did you decide? I can think of reasons to, and not to, confront him about it, but I was not in your shoes. I am genuinely curious, as I imagine that the last few weeks were very difficult, and have no doubt that you anguished over many things. Thanks.

In answer to your question as to "what I meant" Bill, I would ask you to reread all of post #37 again if it still concerns you. I was respectfully bantering with Tom over his agreement with Bryon's actions as being "how an employee should act", and based on the information we had at that point in the thread, suggesting that the "when" of it all could also be speculated, more of a "what, when, and why". I thought that I bent over backwards to indicate what were hypotheticals, and made many statements supportive of Bryon, several of which are right there in post #37. I thought that I was raising questions, the answers to which would better define everything (if we could get answers), and some took the "?" off the ends of my sentances and made them conclusions. Whether readers here wanted to take Bryon's evidence with a grain of salt or not, the preponderance of it all was overwhelmingly powerful in how it painted Allen and his business. I obviously enjoy a good banter and a good discussion, but felt that excessive liberties were being taken with my words.
If I were to ever sit with Bryon, I would not be asking him to tell me all the details on how disgusting things were, as they were more than disgusting enough. I would be asking him about his own thoughts on how it all came to this for him, about the process of how his early optimism turned to such justifiable disilluson. I thank him for some of the insight he has already provided there.
While I can sympathize somewhat with the views expressed by a few that "wholesale" husbandry conditions may be substandard to "hobbyist" husbandry, I don't think it excuses any of what is in the pictures. Like many, I have to look at "Allen the businessman", with high-end balls being kept in squalor, and without even getting so far as his ethical obligation to his animals and customers, wonder about his obligations to himself.

Bryon,

I for one completely understand and believe what you are saying and believe your intentions to be honorable. I do not believe you to have any ulterior motive.

I too, if I were in your shoes, would have first tried to better the situation for those animals. Then if I was hamstrung in my efforts to do so and was forced by the animals owner to watch them live in such squaller I too would have brought this to the attention of the community.

I think you did everything right. You were newly hired to help with the animals and you thought that is exactly what you were going to get to do. Then when you found out that your new boss did not care about the animals, their health or his customers you took the next logical step. You made the community aware of the situation when you seen Allen had no intentions of changing how he ran his operation.

I personally applaud you for standing up for what you believe in and for doing what you felt was right.

Ditto Sammy!

Regards.

-Within 6 weeks Bryon realized that working at Big Daddy's Wholesale was not the dream job he thought it was going to be. He attempted to effect change despite being used for odd-jobs away from the reptile business. Realizing nothing was going to change and troubled by what he had seen/experienced Bryon left his job. Left as in didn't wait for another job to come along and then make a move, but left over principal.

-I have to tell you that is a gutsy move in my book. We'd all like to think we would do the same thing - but push come to shove - how many of us would just gut it out until we could find another paycheck?

-As far as litigation goes - Bryon was an "at-will employee" and short of him having executed an NDA or other restrictive covenant - that's pretty much a moot issue.

-For those of you defending Allen's business practices - keep going, you are doing us all a service by showing us your true nature.

Thanks for bringing this to the publics attention. It is obvious that your concern for the animals was your first concern, although for your sake it probably would have been best to remain anonymous. Never the less, it is out there, and will hopefully motivate Allen to invest more time and effort into caring for his animals.

It is obvious from the pictures that this operation is not very organized or proffesional. Just from the pictures, i.e using lightweight plastic food containers for water bowls, obviously these will be knocked over and wet the cages, the rotting mice in cages, un-protected heat lamps, cups of animals sitting on the floor, live mice left unattended with snakes, build up of feces etc. Bad husbandry at best, cruelty to animals at worst.

I am sure when Byron stepped into this operation it was as much as he could do to keep up with the daily responsibilities he was assaigned no less devote extra time to cleaning up a mess that has obviously not happened overnight. Plus, as an employee, it was not really his responsibility to do things he was not told to do.

Seems like Allen night have his hands in too many projects/businesses to do really well with any one (breeding, wholesaling, party jumpers (??), laying pipe, breeding rodents)

A lot of people are shocked that there are expensive morphs involved - thats what happens when a new fad hits, people see $$$$$ and get into it but don't realize that you actually have to WORK at it to achieve the results. They're good at buying or aquiring the animals but then put no effort into the husbandry. Like a "puppy mill" but with snakes.

I was not the person who mentioned that Bryon worked with Allen for 6 weeks. I may have misread your post. I indicated that my conversation with Bryon was awhile back. Your post gave the impression that Bryon was satisfied with these working conditions for an extended period of time and is now bringing this issue forward for some mysterious reason. However, I still think Bryon did what he could and to say that he should/could have acted sooner is an indication to me that you believe Bryon could/should have done something other than what he has done. And Yes, I do believe my statement deemed more explaination as you seemingly want to make a bigger deal out of what has been said than it really needs to be.

As far as asking why this situation is as it is, we'll have to hear Allen's side to this. Instead of "killing the messenger" and casting doubt on the motives/truthfulness of Bryon's post, maybe we can wait to interrogate the person responsible for this mess. To repeatedly ask "What did you do? What did he do?" is really a waste of time. It seems apparent that someone has neglected their responsibilities, has poor business ethics, and a "couldn't care less" attitude about their employees, animals, and customers. The person who could answer all the questions and clear this up isn't talking.

And our issue is not about Allen's redeeming qualities, as there don't seem to be any, and I have to wholeheartedly agree that he can come here in his own defense. With regard to the issue that does exist between us, these are your words from your most recent post:

I was not the person who mentioned that Bryon worked with Allen for 6 weeks. I may have misread your post. I indicated that my conversation with Bryon was awhile back. Your post gave the impression that Bryon was satisfied with these working conditions for an extended period of time and is now bringing this issue forward for some mysterious reason.

FYI, Bryon had mentioned "six weeks" in the very first post. You then provided this information in post #25:

Wow, I know you were pretty hyped about this job a couple of weeks ago.

If you now say that when you said a "couple of weeks ago" you actually meant to say "awhile back", then so be it. I didn't provide any other interpretation or impression, as you allege. I copied your words exactly, and did not take them put of context. Do you understand now why I used your quote? 6-2=4.