Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

Yup, agreed Jim,
TOM

I just wanted to say something else, most places of employment that do not allow picture taking have it posted or in a employment agreement. If Allen has neither of these at his place of business, I don't think he can sue him for taking pictures. I used to work in a warehouse that had us sign documents stating no pictures were allowed to be taken.

Let me address your concerns stated here:

But they way you quote everything so far, you are But they way you quote everything so far, you are assuming he has an hidden agenda. You have stated it could be staged etc. It sounds like you are trying to provide Allen with an excuse. Maybe I just don't understand what your getting at. You have stated it could be staged etc. It sounds like you are trying to provide Allen with an excuse. Maybe I just don't understand what your getting at.

I think that another post by another entity in this thread did make an assumption that Bryon had a hidden agenda. If you go back and look at all of my posts, I would ask you to copy and paste the statement by me that supports this part of your statement:"But they way you quote everything so far, you are assuming he has an hidden agenda." I believe that I have genuinely suggested that one could exist. I also have not posted one single reason why I suspect one, as I do not, but mainly do not know.

The potential legal issues are quite complex, and will vary from state to state. Assuming Allen does not have his employees sign a "do not take pictures" agreement, it is likely of very little relevance, as the state will have statutes regarding proprietary rights, etc, that would trump the lack of an agreement, and likely establish precedent. The need and/or value of such agreements will vary from state to state, from business type to business type, with the nature of what is being photographed, and how it is used.

Here are some assumptions that I do make:

1) Allen is aware of this thread, and has gone ballistic. Whether controlled or not, I do not know. Bryon is likely now in possession of more communications from Allen, and neither one is enjoying a comfortable Super Sunday.

2) Whether because of emails or other communications he has received since this thread began, whether from Allen or others, Bryon has increased concerns now that he did not have when he began the thread.

3) The email from Allen, as posted by Bryon, if it is legitimate, has created an even bigger mess for Allen. As pointed out by another, it creates grounds for refunds on the sale of any "poss-hets". My experience is that if you send an email to someone, they own it, and can put it on a billboard if they want to.

Don't know that he is in a position to post, of if he even has a desire to, but Allen was getting an eyeful of this thread just a short while back.

Jim, please do not try to read anything into my posts that is not there. To enlighten those reading this thread...I chatted with Bryon several weeks ago, he had just started the job and was excited to be working with an organization that would be doing shows and really into the business side of the hobby. That is what was MEANT by "excited about the job" in my previous post.
I seriously doubt that Bryon has any motive other than exposing a probable scammer and festering scab in the herp business. I think anyine would be hard pressed to come up with any evidence that Bryon is anything other than a good guy trying to keep people from getting screwed.
I think the link to the other thread gives us a real good idea of what we are dealing with here. Why would someone change their business name if there wasn't something up? The old name was "fins and feathers" or something to that effect, now it is "Bid Daddy's wholesale"...why the name change? Somebody got something in the past to hide? Maybe some bad deals or a bad reputation? I guess we need to wait for Allen to come on here & defend his husbandry and business practices.

Originally Posted by Chamco

Quote:
I WOULD EXPECT an employee to do the same as Bryon did here if my place looked at all like this...

Maybe so, but Bryon was there for six weeks, so should his indignation at the situation have moved him to action sooner if things are as we have been told? We also have this from an acquaintance of Bryon's in post #25:

Quote:
Wow, I know you were pretty hyped about this job a couple of weeks ago.

Its not so much that I question Bryon's motives, as I truly do not know. But I don't want to make conclusive assumptions as to it all either.

I am going from this qoute of a previous statement. You said you thought he should have acted sooner if conditions were like that. This statement "the situation have moved him to action sooner if things are as we have been told?" says you dont think things were that bad or he would have acted sooner.

Originally Posted by Chamco

3) The email from Allen, as posted by Bryon, if it is legitimate, has created an even bigger mess for Allen. As pointed out by another, it creates grounds for refunds on the sale of any "poss-hets". My experience is that if you send an email to someone, they own it, and can put it on a billboard if they want to.

Sound like an assumption that it might not be real.

Originally Posted by Chamco

An argument could be made that you were taking the pictures so as to harm Allen's reputation, and therefor had motivation to stage some of them,

Did you not state this? what is his motivation? Sounds like more assumptions.

What would be Bryon's motivations?

What does he gain by faking this?

Maybe its just what was stated about a warning for others that may do business with him.

Originally Posted by Chamco

The potential legal issues are quite complex, and will vary from state to state. Assuming Allen does not have his employees sign a "do not take pictures" agreement, it is likely of very little relevance, as the state will have statutes regarding proprietary rights, etc, that would trump the lack of an agreement, and likely establish precedent. The need and/or value of such agreements will vary from state to state, from business type to business type, with the nature of what is being photographed, and how it is used.

Exactly, so it is neither here nor there. At this point, if the pics were legal or not is irrelevant.

Beware lest you play the devil's advocate so well that you become the devil's agent.

There is no personal agenda here. Why wasn't this brought to here earlier? I was told by Allen , the owner of the company that things would get better. Obviously they haven't. As for my part in this , I'm only one guy , I didn't make my schedule , my boss did. I mentioned to Allen a number of times that tubs needed to be cleaned but no time was scheduled for me to do that. I have done everything there mostly by myself , there aren't enough hours in the day to do what needed to be done by myself. I was the only employee for Big Daddy's Wholesale , the only employee to care for roughly 200 animals at any given time spread over 4 buildings , one of which was a 15 - 20 minute away . Not to mention , build rodent racks , do deliveries / pick ups , shows , set up party jumpers and anything else that was added. Allen added extra duties to my job after I started , putting up inflatable party jumpers and laying sewer pipe was not part of my job but since I was on the payroll those duties were added . Wasting time fooling with jumpers and laying sewer pipe did take away from what needed to be done. I could only do so much with the schedule I was given.As for the time it took to take pics I did that on my way to make a delivery. Took a whole 10 minutes . The fact that the buildings except for one is in Allen's backyard makes you wonder why some things weren't a priority since he had very easy acess to most of the animals.

As far as why I did this . Its very simple , I work hard for my money and when I spend it on an animal I want to get a good animal just like everyone else. Should I have hid this? Probably if I wanted no trouble but doing the right thing isn't always easy now is it? Anything personal between me and Allen is being kept personal via e-mail . The only e-mails posted in this concerned what I explained in this thread. I've already been told by one person already they feel its a " disgruntled employee " thing. Its not , if you choose to believe so then so be it. This thread wouldn't be here if Allen had scheduled my time better and took a personal interest in how things were run. I can only bring what needs to be done to his attention so many times before its obvious that the boss isn't listening or its not a priority.

Whatever happens to me over this happens. The only thing I can hope for is that if Allen stays in the biz he takes this as a learning experience and refines his scheduling and priorities. This is a clear case of what happens when its all about the money. The animals suffer. If I wasn't doing my job then why has he asked back? Why wasn't I fired? I know with the animals he has if the were mine and an employee was screwing off their care then that employee would be looking for a new job quick.

Tom O say:
Beware lest you play the devil's advocate so well that you become the devil's agent.

How true, LOL !

As for Bill and Amy.............. sheeeesh! I ask this question, without rendering any opinion what-so-ever as to the answer, but to demonstrate that IMO how one answers this question bears consideration on the assumptions made and previously stated by others:

....but Bryon was there for six weeks, so should his indignation at the situation have moved him to action sooner if things are as we have been told?

and you re-state it as this:

You said you thought he should have acted sooner if conditions were like that

After mis-stating what I said, you then tell me what I really was thinking!

.....says you dont think things were that bad or he would have acted sooner.

Well heck guys, why don't you just write my posts for me !!

Then when I say this:

The email from Allen, as posted by Bryon, if it is legitimate, has created an even bigger mess for Allen ......

It means that I am qualifying my answer in the context of not knowing if it is complete, in context, etc., but that I am assuming its authenticity relative to the point I am making.

But you say this:

Sound like an assumption that it might not be real

If it sounds that way to you , then fine !! But if you have to use "assumption" and 'might" in the same sentance, allow that I am considering that there may be more context to this whole situation, which while not materially changing that I have clearly stated that Allen's shop has problems, certainly could provide much context. What a few of us have ventured to point out is that there could be many other as-yet-unknown circumstances at play here.

This is what you stated in an earlier post Bill:

.............you are assuming he has an hidden agenda

and have only supported your statement by rewriting what I have said. If you don't agree with me, that is fine. But please do not attribute things to me that I have not said. That is what you did, and that is what I took issue with. If you think that I may have implied something, then ask me what I mean by it ..... please !
After the above quote, you then said this:

Maybe I just don't understand what your getting at.

This is an accurate statement. Next issue follows !

Bill and Amy
Yes, I am from Alabama but that doesn't mean anything, I have dealt with and seen Allen at several of the Reptile Shows and his animals all appear very healthy. If his animals were not taken care of they wouldn't be in good condition at the reptile shows. I am not defending Allen because we are friends, Its not like that at all. I have never been to Allens house or shop but have only seen the quality of his animals at the shows and I have seen nothing wrong, It just seems to me that Bryons picture taking was pre-planned and if he was supposed to be cleaning reptile cages then why wasn't the cleaning being done by Bryon after all he did work for Allen, TRUE or FALSE? Plus if you look at most of the photo's taken by Bryon they are blurry and most of the bedding looks WET(as if someone spilt water), instead of running and getting my camera I would have CLEANED the damn cage..DUH..but NO I want to get back at my boss for something he said or did...That is what this is all about. I know that and he does to. Oh and lets talk about the photo with the ball morphs... I see like one pile of FRESH CRAP where the paper is still wet for 6 snakes, and the picture with the mouse what is that, he could have been trying to feed. Couldn't he have? I didn't see any poor cnditioned snakes in any of the photo's, I did see crap in the pictures but the guy(bryon) taking the photo should have cleaned them if that was HIS JOB. But all that is his story and pictures. We all know we deal with LIVE animals that USE the BATHROOM REGULAR, YES we clean the cages as much as we can but at any point we COULD walk into any Reptile Room and find at least one crappy cage if you are dealing with several different types of reptiles. I am not saying it is OK to find Crap in cages I am just saying Reptiles use the bathroom and you might clean the cage and leave the room and come back 20 minutes later to find WET paper and instead of taking photo's to slam someone that I worked for I would have cleaned. I see other motives in this case....After all he was an employee of Allens, Why would he go through the trouble to hold a dated news paper up in all of his pictures, Damn Bryon clean them cages and let your boss know what you found...But you would rather take pictures and post them on the BOI. Just clean the crap up...LOL.

As I stated before I have not talked to Allen about this post and he did not ask me to write this. I only see Allen at the Local Reptile shows about once a month and I have never been to his place of buiness. I have sold/gotten animals from him and they were all fine and in good health, all of the ball morphs were in great condition and if I would have had the extra cash I would have purchased some of them. I just feel that this is a attemp to screw allen and one of his business'. Allen may not have the cleanest business cages but none of us know the true condition of the cages or if he might have added the spilt water to make them look worse then they really are. That is just my opinion. So I hope Bill and Amy don't accuse me of being anything else than living in the same state. Like they stated in another post about it not being just a coincident. :scatter: I'am outta here
See ya David