Keven Vogenberger, Keven2, questionable stock

Originally Posted by Keven2

The chameleon does not have mbd. It was in a bad situation but I paid 100.00 to get him out of the home he was in so I don't know if I would not classify him being a rescue. After doing research and taking him to a vet he is a different kind of Cham then a veil so he looks different. I need to. Free up some space and figured I could find him a new home and maybe recoup some money. He has had a fecal and look at by my vet and the vet said he is healthy as can be . When I got him they had him in a 5 gallon tank and that is why I paid 100.00 for him. I have since taken the ad down because I just don't have the energy right now to explain what's up with him. He eats like a pig drinks great acts great. I keep him and all my Chams in outside cages and I have just ran out of room. So I was just trying to recoup a little cash and find him a good home.

Originally Posted by Keven2

Omg I took it too a vet and my ad said I didn't know what kind of Cham it was I took it to the vet she told me it was a helmeted chameleon I'm not posting names or paper work I really don't have time for this I took the add down I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go. I have so much going on to sit here and argue back and forth with you. You proved your point you are right I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Keven2

First off im not throwing the vet tech under the bus I called and talked to the vet tech. Me not knowing enough about my product was wrong and I admit that but this bullying is wrong also.

Originally Posted by Keven2

So at this point you have probably crushed my ability to sell anything on here and having so many rescues that no one wants I will have to start uthenizing them cause without the money from the sale of animals I cannot care for them and no one wants them!

Originally Posted by Keven2

did not say I was going to kill off my reptiles. I stated if this effort to try to destroy me worked I would not be able to care for them

I will not disclose the vet tech I took the Cham too.

You are just so he'll bent on this vet. Even if I got papers they wouldn't be good enough you would say I made them up.

These are your words. No one has put words in your mouth.

You can have 100 great transactions and one bad one, it makes no matter, what matters is how you handle yourself in the bad one. This wasn't even a bad transaction, it was an inquiry.

I don't think you are a bad guy, just in over your head. You need to stop taking in rescues, especially if you cannot care for them all.

So ... can we all ... I understand the it's easy to give good customer service when all is well and the true test is when things go wrong ,,, but the repetition here is pointless .. Keven has indicated he made mistakes and tried to apologize .. only to get reprimanded further ... whereupon by his own admission he gets defensive. I have had several opportunities to talk with him and he seems very concerned and compassionate about his critters ... he seems to be trying hard to take good care of them and do things right .. perhaps Melissa is correct and he has a hard time saying no to taking in more critters .. if tdohat's true than he needs to come to those terms ... but to continue this ongoing argument seems pointless.
I have no dog in this fight .. so my impression is strictly that of an outsider .. I do know the people who spoke in his favor from Facebook and don't think it was fair to treat them with no sense of community fairness ... I know we all have opinions and some of ya'll have very strong opinions and personalities ... but I for one enjoy being a member here and the folks that make up this community .... I hope my words aren't misunderstood!

Posted by Keven vogenberger (Contact Me!)
April 14, 2018 at 12:12:48
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I took a look at Kevens kingsnake ads he has posted on there.I don't believe that many are rescues but do believe that most are animals he has picked up as wholesale lots and he is just flipping whatever he can get his hands on.maybe it would serve him better if he slowed down and got to know each animal to make sure there are no problems before he jumps on his pc to make some $$$ maybe he can avoid another veiled problem like this one,and dude properly identify the animal you are selling.

I am not buying his rescue story after reading all his lies here.what his mission in life is, is flipping whatever he can get his greedy hands on.I am not judging him for flipping, Keven...just do it right,that's how you avoid another BOI thread.

Originally Posted by acecurl16

to continue this ongoing argument seems pointless.

The way someone responds to adversity is not pointless. Keven chose to lie. Keven chose to say that he was going to euthanize his animals. And Keven alone chose to acquire enough animals that he is in a bind.

There is no argument here. People will read this thread and draw their own conclusions. Trying to have the last word and then hush the thread doesn't work here. New information comes to light as it just did in Ed's post.

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

Originally Posted by acecurl16

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

While it may be repetitive, there is a reason for that. If Keven would stop asserting he took it to a vet/vet tech or called a vet tech, it would probably die down. Also, twisting our words doesn't help him either.

Yes, he apologized for his mistake on the identity & health of the cham, but still lies about the vet.

As long as he properly represents the animals he is selling, he should not have any issues.

As far as the rescue bit, he needs to learn how to say no and/or refer people to other rescues. He also needs to learn that you cannot save all the animals.

Originally Posted by acecurl16

Wasn't trying to have last word or hush anything .. just feel repetitious and redonedent. Sorry .. I'll go away again and be silent

I thought you made valid points, and whatever the merits of this case are, it is totally OK to come on and express a different point of view. I hope you are not discouraged by this - if all viewpoints are not included it's not a discussion.

Originally Posted by Lucille

I think you are lying.

Originally Posted by Lucille

You lied about what kind of cham it was
You lied about its health
You lied about taking it to a vet

Originally Posted by Lucille

And after all, you lied to us about taking this critter to a vet yourself

Originally Posted by Lucille

Keven chose to lie.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

In this one issue, we have several lies ...

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

First you said you took it to a vet. Lie
Then you said you called a vet tech & the said it was healthy. Probably a lie.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Yes, he apologized for his mistake on the identity & health of the cham, but still lies about the vet.

I think calling him a liar 9 or so times is probably enough to make the point. The ad was removed, the chameleon properly identified, its health issues made known, and he apologized (multiple times) for the incident. I don't see that it makes much difference if it was seen by a vet or vet tech in light of this. In the interest of being constructive, how about stating what you want from him at this point? I'm wondering myself since it doesn't seem to be owning up to the issue and apologizing.

Originally Posted by Keven2

So if you'd like to hear I was wrong that is no problem. It was wrong for me to post the add I posted I should have worded it differently...Believe me this will not happen again.

Originally Posted by Keven2

Anyway you are 100 percent correct and I am 100 percent in the wrong but have learned from this mistake. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I truly hope you have a blessed day!

Originally Posted by Keven2

I apologised I admitted what I did was wrong while unintentional it was not right please just let this go...You proved your point you are right I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Keven2

Yes did my ego get into the way when people started yelling at me how bad off the animal was and making me feel stupid for not knowing it wasnt supposed to look like that yes I looked like an idiot and it hurt my feelings so I lashed out and that was wrong but hey that's a character defect I need to work on and i opologize for that!

Originally Posted by Keven2

I admitted where I was wrong...I took the ad down i admitted where i was wrong and i appologize to whoever it was i went off on in the beginning of this. Anyway I don't know of anything else I can do.

What surprised me when I read all this was the fact that no one, including the "vet tech" commented on the obvious old thermal burns on this animal's spine. A professional who actually saw him would have noted this. Many of the dorsal spines are damaged or completely gone and the tissue damage probably created the spine's warped shape. There is obvious scar tissue that may or may not be completely healed and a couple of patchy areas over the ribs too. Yes, I do see some MBD damage in the legs, but it might be stable. No way to know how active the problem is. His casque is smaller than normal, but casques on veileds do vary. The distended cloaca area is also a concern. Could have a history of prolapses or partially retained sperm plugs. Again, all things a new keeper should be advised about. Basically a pretty battered chameleon that may need extra care no matter whose hands he ends up in. No legitimate chameleon dealer would have sold this poor old guy, they would have put him in the most kind-hearted home they could find.

Whether there were deliberate lies told or not, the point here is that the seller was completely ignorant about the animal offered for sale. That speaks volumes.

See your just digging for stuff what I said is i have a friend that is a vet tech and she looks at my animals on the side. How else do you propose I care for my animals. Work a 40 he week job. No I sell reptiles to make money to care for them. What part dont you get. I'm not just some wealthy person I have to make money to help rescues. How is that not a logical thing to do. You are very strange. How do you think rescues work? They get donations to run. I do not get donations I work my butt off to be able to care for them.i don't buy nice stuff I buy crickets medicine and supplies. You say your doing this because you care about reptiles bull shit your doing this because this is what you do on here. This is exciting to you. You get off on this stuff! You are sick and need help! How many reptiles have you sold. How many do you care for every day? You have absolutely no idea what I'm about or you wouldn't do this kind of thing. That Veil might have looked bad but he eats and gets around as good as any veil. You haven't seen sick if you think That's sick. I've got some reptiles from people lately that make you want to cry. There's nothing that can be done except make them as comfortable as they can be until they pass. What are you doing for reptiles besides trolling fauna?? I know I do my part. I half way want to just have a ton of customers give details about there transactions with me. I answer questions at any time 3 or 4 am on a regular basis. I make 50.00 an animal and hold some for 3 months at a time most for a month or so after feeding and care how much do you think I make? Not a lot. You have no idea the lengths i go to to make sure i give 100 percent customer satisfactions because the rescues i have depend on me to make money for them.it really won't be hard to blow this thread up with satisfied customers customers. As much as I want to I dont know if i should subject anyone to this kind of bullying. Anything said you will find fault. People like you make me so disgusted you do things out of spite and not common sense. Common sense a guy takes care of a ton of dying reptiles let's make it harder for him because he mad me mad! Cause that's all this is you know I didn't know this was a Veil I can't prove it was taken to my friend a vet tech cause I won't put her out there but that's immaterial. Your saying I was trying to pass off a sick veil. You know that's not true. This is about your feelings and feeling of power. If Keven doesn't show vet papers!! Lucille will do this to him hu I'll show him how dare he do this to me. How dare he not show me what i want so i can try to torment someone poor girl that made a mistake! so Lucille feels better about herself. Anyway ive been up since 4am soaking sick animals went to bed last night at 2 after caring for reptiles all day. Thats just about my daily routine so when I don't get right back to your bullying on here that's why. Not cause I don't care to defend myself I honestly don't have the time!!!!!