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Old 05-18-2010, 04:16 PM   #1
Ectothermicfauna
rehydrating a sav?

becuase I know you'll ask heres the Set- up:

Temps are 131.7 on basking. 92 ambient hot side, 74 ambient cool side. shallow ceramic water dish (more like ashtrays really lol) big enough for them to soak in for now, one on each side (who likes a cold bath?), Theres a little wet sphagnum moss in a bead jar to help keep the humidity too. two hides one each side, and about 4" of dirt with another 1" of cypress mulch. (I know its supposed to be just dirt but I needed something to raise the humidity its about 70% now). The enclosure is not glass with a screen lid at all. I dont do the pet shop "jerky machine" in fact it may be a little under ventilated..

Its 4'x2' right now, but I think this will do okay untill I can get ahold of something better.

anyway, I got in 2 baby savs through the halfway house today (with two more on the way tomorrow) that im sure are imports about 4" tiny tiny.

One is doing pretty good from what I can see.

The other has the backbones, so im calling it the dreaded "dehydration".

Im wondering what are the best ways to rehydrate the wee one?
 
Old 05-19-2010, 06:47 PM   #2
Maldesto
130 rofl on every care sheet it was under 110
 
Old 05-19-2010, 09:04 PM   #3
Ectothermicfauna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maldesto View Post
130 rofl on every care sheet it was under 110
although the ability to read a caresheet surely does not constitute a thorough understanding on captive care..

Heres a quote straight from Savannahmonitor.org's caresheet.

Quote:
One of the pitfalls of monitor keeping is the belief that monitors require the same basking temperatures as other reptiles, including bearded dragons. While other reptiles may shy away from any basking surface temperature higher than 110F, monitors gravitate toward and make full use of surface temps in excess of 130F-140F without harm.

It should be noted that we are referring to surface temps as measured with an infrared temp gun, not ambient air temps.

Basking surface temps of 130F-140F can be achieved even with a bank of 45 watt flood lights close to the basking area.
If you havent read the one at Savannahmonitor.org, maybe you should

http://savannahmonitor.org/housing/basics/

See for yourself.

There are several posts here from actual owners that also say 130's for basking as well.

Tom Palopoli is quoted as saying
Quote:
Make sure you have a good 130+ surface temp basking area for him with a large temp gradient within his enclosure (down to 75 ambient on the cool side).
and even suggests hotter for the sicker ones
Quote:
Do check his basking temps, maybe get it up to 150+ surface temp.
both quotes from http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=100476

perhaps
John S Cordone at http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=127004

Quote:
My first question would be are you sure your friend is reading the basking temp
correctly? It wouldn't be too hard to possibly make a mistake reading the temp. 130 degrees sounds about right
So to you dustin. I hardly find a basking temp that is commonly referred to as Ideal to be worthy of "ROFL". Please do not speak to me as If I am an uneducated impulse buyer. Although I would never even pretend to be an expert on the subject I do operate a reptile shelter and am not a complete idiot. Im just trying to learn from the personal experiences of others in order to offer the best care to the less fortunate of reptiles in my area. Hopefully through the responses of actually educated persons on the matter, other people who may search for this in the future will have a collective understanding without having to ask themself.

So if any one who actually does have an educated response to the question would like to chime in on their favorite method for rehydrating tiny baby savs, I'd love to hear it.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 07:39 AM   #4
Gina Gauvin
Hi April,
I would not keep moist mulch in there. It could cause upper respiratory infection, mold or various staph, bacteria infections to start showing on the skin. He needs hot and dry conditions, but in the wild, even in hot desert areas they might wake up with a dew on them to which they'd lick and hydrate themselves to prepare them for the hot day.
In captivity we'd replicate that by misting with warm water, in the morning. I find heating them up an hour first before misting, get's them to lick the mist more than if misted when cool. You'll find that if you put hot water in a bottle, and mist your wrist, it's just warm, so I use hot water.
And after they've licked the mist a bit, you can start them on calcium drops by placing a drop a day on the nose while licking mist. Not force feeding. With their being wc they've been under a great deal of stress, and you want to eliminate that stress as much as possible.
If that's a wood enclosure and only visible from the front, that's a step in the right direction. You want to fix the set up and then leave it alone. Everytime you move something, you create stress and interupt aclimating.
Chances are they have parasites being wc. In the wild they can survive with these parasites but being stressed thru captivy and loss of appetite has weakened their immune system, causing parasites to gain a foothold on positive gut flora.
I'd suggest buying something that produces positive gutflora or beneficial bacteria. Like Benabac. Not sure if it's still available but they had a orange paste that the lizards actually like. Many species of lizards love the orange colored foods.
Even if you bought plain yogurt with a label that says it has beneficial bacteria or cultures? Using a dropper after misting to get them licking you could put a few drops of it on his tongue. The main thing is to get him hydrated. And if that works you can do the fun stuff like bug flurries. Mash a few crickets in, add a few peas or carrots, and vitamins. Yummy!
To start him out on the new regime, you could take him out early in the day, and soak him for 10 minutes in shoulder high warm water, being careful not to leave him alone. Dry him well, and leave his current temps as they sound good. (I don't remember your night time temps, but until he's fattened up, I'd keep a night light on to about 75 degrees to keep his tolerances high.) After that bath, I wouldn't take him out again. Put a few plants infront of the cage to block his view and create more privacy.
Concerning waterbowls, I'd just have 1, and in the center of the cage. They can not see water so everyday after an hour of light, put in the empty bowl and after misting their faces, slowly pour water into their bowl. If I thought you had a space on top of the cage, I'd say put a plastic cup full of water, with a pin hole in the bottom, on top, above the waterbowl, so it slowly drips into the bowl. And they can then see the water and it attracts them.
You might also try a jar lid and dropping in a few wax worms and see if that interests them. After hydrating a week you might want to look into getting a vet check on fecals for parasites. That can be dehydrating and can kill positive gut flora as well, so you'll want to keep up with the daily misting and fluries, till you see fatpads on head. If tail is totally sunken in, it may be too late, but you'd be amazed sometime how long they can survive.

Good luck!
 
Old 05-20-2010, 09:26 PM   #5
Ectothermicfauna
So for the drops is this what you were talking about?

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...-rex-bone-aid/

and the bene bac
http://www.petguys.com/-020279995590.html

The dripper sounds like the kind you would use for chams right? I will do that.

Remove the mulch, will do. One has already made a borrow with it though

The cage is already enclosed on 3 sides. Got that one right

Working on the fecals. there is only one exotics vet here now and she gets booked in advance. ugh. my turn is on saturday.

I have not been handling them even to move them out to soak. their water dish is large enough to soak in, and I was concerned over handling them adding to their stress.

okay I know someone will be mad at me for this but-

The dehydrated one ate a really well washed earthworm yesterday. just practically ripped it off the hemostats and chomped it down instantly. the worm was the kind you feed to garters. Although Im not sure its okay to feed them earthworms, it is an invertabrate (well, actually their annelids), and Its better than nothing. I wanted to feed him crix but the pet store was out. I'm still waiting on a shipment of waxworm/mealies in fact im gonna start breeding them both because the only pet store we have just can not keep up with the demand I have for them. I know the earthworm was probably not ideal but honestly I just wanted something in him.

Is the SDZ diet okay to feed hatchlings (followed exactly of course)? is it suposed to be a main staple or supplement?

Thanks for all the info. I know some of these is google worthy stuff but personal experience tends to work better faster.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 06:18 AM   #6
angie.h
I'm no monitor expert,but about 12 years ago I had a small one and it LOVED earthworms and when it got about 10-11 inches it would even eat the huge nightcrawlers. The growth rate was tremendous while eating those. I believe worms are high in calcium and high moisture content as well.Probably will help the little one out as far as hydration,too.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 01:35 PM   #7
Gina Gauvin
Sounds good!

I would think those worms would be fine. Getting him eating is a step in the right direction. The links for the calcium drops and benebac are good! I'd get them, and even if he's eating, those will help fatten him up.
If the mulch is dry it'd be ok to leave in, but if it's moist, I'd get it out of there. Once they start eliminating in it, it becomes a host to all kinds of funky organism's that can cause health problems.
Set up a clay cave under the basking light. They bask on it, and then go inside to sleep, and you don't have to worry about them going to sleep and not coming out, because when it heats up, they wake up.

Good luck!
 
Old 05-23-2010, 07:49 PM   #8
TailsWithScales
No offense Gina but what in the world are you doing giving advice?? Yogurt?????????
You do understand that monitors are 100% carnivores and CANNOT PROCESS LACTOSE??
You will kill that baby.

What happened to a good old fashion soaking?? Monitors do not rehydrate through their skin like other species of lizards can. It's all through drinking and sometimes diet.
Soak your small ones in just normal water for about 15 minutes. Doing this daily will take care of it quick if it's even dehydrated at all.

Skinny does not mean dehydration. Especially in babies. It usually means lack of food. Which sounds more like that's what the small ones issue is. A person wil buy a few monitors as babies as house them together. Sometimes this works others it doesn't. Even as babies there is a dominant one and a submissive. Guess who eats first and gets the food? So I'm 90% sure that your good looking baby was more dominant or not shy.

Putting weight on is a cinch. Fresh pinkies dipped in egg. That's it. The master trick of the trade. You can also do pinky pricking which draws blood. That also works.

House these two separately to allow the skinny baby to recoup.

I don't use mulch either. I use a top soil, peat moss, sand mix. Hold humidity EXTREMELY well.

Earthworms have no nutritional value and may give the small one diarrhea.
Just stick with fresh pinks, crickets and maybe tiny roaches if you can get those.
 
Old 05-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #9
angie.h
Actually,I just googled nutritional value on earthworms and pinkie mice and the sources mentioned very high fat content,not much nutritional value in pinkies,also a baby sav at 6" might not be able to eat one....earthworms [ although I was incorrect about being high in calcium, but are in moisture content ] are what seemed to have triggered the baby's feeding response and of course this would not be recommended as a sole prey item...just one of several.
 

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