Bill Corwin aka reptilegems@aol.com ( BAD GUY)

http://forum.kingsnake.com/beard/messages/103010.html

Not sure how long this link will be up, so I'll copy/paste what it says:


DO NOT BUY FROM BIL CORWIN, HE SOLD ME A SICK BEARDED DRAGON


Posted by HERPCONDO on April 27, 2003 at 23:15:04:

DO NOT BUY FROM BILL CORWIN, AKA REPTILEGEMS@AOL.COM HE SOLD ME A BEARDED DRAGON WITH A RESIRATORY INFECTION,,,, JUST TRYING TO KEEP OTHER FROM GOING THROUGH THE TROUBLE I HAVE HAD TRYING TO GET HIM TO DO THE RIGHT THING,,, BUT HE WONT!


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Now, I don't know about other people, but I'll never do business with ANYONE who posts something like that, where it's against the terms of service, and quite distasteful at that.

Personally, I feel that when you aquire a new animal, it should go to the vet within 2 days of getting it. You knew when the dragons were supposed to arrive, you should have had an appointment setup for the day after they got there, then the vet could have TOLD you the dragon was sick, if in fact it was sick at that point. I too would like to see what the vet has to say on that.

Also, has anyone notified Mr. Corwin of the existence of this thread? If not, I'll email him and do so, I just don't want him to get several emails over the same thing...

Rob,,,
No , in his ads he does not post a guarantee period,,,,
and Jen,, if you were buying from a guy who has Been in the "business for 35 years as he claims,,, " Why should i have had to take her to the vet right away,,? is it to much to ask to get a healthy animal,,,, ? I am about 100 miles from my herp vet,,,( there are other vets closer, but not a herp vet) so it is not like i can just hop in the car and run over and see him every time, a new animal comes in... and lastly,,, he even said in one of his email to me:
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Also if she was sick I would have wanted her to go out to you before I left on my trip but I gave you the option of having them shipped before I left of after I got back
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(quote from Bills email..)
He pushed me to get the money sent to him overnight, and it had to be there by wed... and why would he want " a sick animal to go out" I would never sell someone a sick animal... and if a problem was to arise 2 from the start or 5 days later, i would take care of it... but that isjust me,,

if you were buying from a guy who has Been in the "business for 35 years as he claims,,, " Why should i have had to take her to the vet right away,,?

Ummm, to protect yourself, your animals? Even if I bought from Bob Clark, who has one of the best reputations in the business, I'd be at the herp vets within a day! ANYONE can send out a sick animal unknowingly, it's YOUR responsibility as the buyer, and new owner of that animal, to make sure it's healthy.


[quote] is it to much to ask to get a healthy animal,,,, ? I am about 100 miles from my herp vet,,,( there are other vets closer, but not a herp vet) so it is not like i can just hop in the car and run over and see him every time, a new animal comes in... and lastly,,, he even said in one of his email to me:
__________________________________________________ __
Also if she was sick I would have wanted her to go out to you before I left on my trip but I gave you the option of having them shipped before I left of after I got back /[quote]

No, it's not too much to ask for a healthy animal. I don't blame you for being upset she's sick. But if you're not willing to drive to the herp vets each time you get a new animal, then deal with the consequences. My herp vet is about 45 minutes from here, and I have a newborn son I have to take with me everywhere. Yet, when I purhcase a new snake within the next few weeks, guess where we're off to....that's right! The vets office!

As for what Bill said about sending them, it's quite possibly a typo, he probably meant he would(n't) have wanted her to ship, but you were in a hurry to get them, so he complied.

He pushed you to get the money there so he could ship when YOU wanted him to. He didn't care either way. I don't blame him at all for wanting the money before he ships!



Since no one answered about Mr. Corwin being notified of this thread, I will go ahead and email him.

Joe, did YOU discuss the guarantee/warranty period before you sent this guy $550? I can not believe people pay these kind of prices for animals and then don't even cover their butts by asking the "what ifs..." beforehand. Now, I grant you that a $275 bearded dragon should come in w/o a respiratory infection, but if his guarantee period is 3 days and you waited 5 then you are SOL. It doesn't matter if he was out of town, that's his problem. If you send an email it has a time/date stamp and that would cover you in case the question of notification comes up. 5 days is not the same as 3 days. As I read your posts it looks to me like you had no idea if there was ANY warranty on the animals. It looks as though you just assumed evrything would be peachy keen. That's nice and all, but in one of your emails to him you even try to use this board and his reputation as leverage, so obviously, you know what often happens when buying animals sight unseen.

The guarantee you are given by the seller must be discussed BEFORE their is a problem. You ask when you buy a car, so why not when you buy a dragon? You might say, well he should still make it right. Maybe, but does his refusal to do so outside of his guarantee period make him a bad guy? No, you can't cry foul, after the warranty has expired. It would be like pulling into the dealership where you bought your car with 50,000 miles on the odometer and saying hey fix my a/c it went out back around 34,000 miles when it was still under warranty. That won't work there, and trying to return a dragon 5 days after you got it with a 3 day guarantee won't either.

Now, if you trying contacting him within the 3 day period, and his guarantee is for 3 days, then we have a whole different situation. So if thats the case postr those emails with time/date stamp.

BRIAN,,,
I did not ask about the guarantee simply because i thought i was buying from a reputatble guy, from the very feedback i got here,,,,
Also no, i did not contact him in the 3 day period,since i did not know it was only a 3 day period,, he has never stated such, and had no website to check it on,,, so did I miss the boat for not asking about the guarantee, and not emailing in the first three days,,,YES..... but i also know he was out of town for a full week,,, so what did it matter, he got the email I sent on the 23rd as soon as he checked it and that was not until yesterday,,,
Bill sent out an animal that had a respiratory infection to me,,, and if he can live with himself for doing me like that, then, I can live with the fact that i did not ask about the guarantee period,,,
If the female dies,, I am left holding the bag,,, One dragon will not break me by any means,, But i just hate to see the poor animal suffer... and it all could have been avioded if he had not sent me a sick animal!

Joe,

Not to say anything bad about you, but if you were concerned for the animal and did not want to see her suffer as you stated, why did you wait 8 days to take her to the Vet? It does not matter if the Vet is 100 miles away or not, if you get or have an animal that is sick you take it to the Vet IMMEDIATELY and not wait 8 days. What very well could have been an easy remedy if taken right away can turn into a larger problem by waiting 8 days. Bottom line is, you should have discussed the guarantee, you should have notified him as soon as she arrived showing signs of a URI, and should have taken her to a Vet the same or next day. Again I am sorry she is ill but there is nothing that can be done now.

Just a couple things...

The dragon probably caught the respiratory infection while in transit (ie, it was not sick before sending out)--sometimes the symptoms do take a couple days to set in, but can quickly be corrected with baytril. So, technically it can be blamed on Corwin for not packing correctly, but he did not knowingly send out a sick dragon.
Was there any immediate correspondence? ie 'they got here and look great'?

Personally, I would send a replacement, but everyone has their policy and as a buyer you need to know what it is.

To jenn--I disagree about taking all animals to a vet immediately--I actually think that this is an additional stress on an animal that can cause more problems than it will help. I think people should know about potential problems and keep an eye out for them--then bring the animal to a vet. But, stress is the #1 problem starter for animals and this animal has freshly been shipped, stress of a new enclosure, on top of going to a vet--yikes! That is almost a sure way to up some parasite levels in bearded dragons--LOL. So, I have to disagree with you there. Besides, I think we all know how hard it is to find a good herp vet. The animal is probably best served left alone acclimating for the first few weeks.
However, as soon as I heard wheezing, I would have at least called the vet and gotten some meds. Or if you notice a problem, then bring the animal in for a check over. In this case I would have tried to get the meds without the stress of bringing her in.

I dont know--you are trying to return an animal, but it needs meds--you probably know that the seller isnt going to give you a refund and vet costs. I guess all of this could have been avoided if communication was more timely.

Tough one.

I do think it was very wrong to post that on KS and the P-Oed attitude is more damaging to your case than helping.

Dana

oops, I guess that was answered--no immediate correspondence.

I agree with Rob--once you heard the wheezing, it was time for meds--the longer you wait, the worse the problem gets and the harder it is to fix.
And I'll say again, he probably did not knowingly send out a sick dragon--she probably caught the RI from low temps in transit--could have used some insulation and heat even.

You are probably out of luck here due to the time frame.

Just try to get that female back on her feet.

Good luck.
dana

Joe, I'm glad you were honest about all that. There is no need for the animal to suffer. She's been to the vet, heat her up and give her the antibiotics. When I see people doing the old, "I just don't want to see the animal suffer...." it grates on my nerves. Besides according to your story the animal would have been suffering while in his care anyway. So now you can save that poor animal's life and keep it away from evil guys, like the one you bought/rescued it from.

What I'm getting at, in a long sarcastic way, is, Bull$%!^ YOU WANT YOUR MONEY BACK! Don't try and play our heartstrings. You bought an animal you had never seen, from a guy you'd never done business with, w/o covering your a$$, and now you're pissed. That's ok. But, this is still at least 50% your fault. You will have to accept whatever comes from this w/o any real recourse. Yes, you can shout from the highest mountain, how bad this guy is, but bagging on him here won't work, because you should have known better.

I would like to see the sellers side of this also, but if he has no website and you didn't ask about the guarantee up front, I guess he can say whatever he wants to now, can't he?

Caveot Emptor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dana,,,
You are right , i was very P-od last night,, i have waited 9 days for the guy i bought the dragon from to get back into town, just to get three lines from him saying tough noogies...
I think anyone would have been upset,,,
In retrospect, i probably should have not posted on Ks Like i did,,, but i would hate for anyone to go through what i have gone through with this poor dragon,,,
As for going to the Vet "IMMEDIATELY" as Rob put it, i was Called by the company I work for to go over 300 miles away to check on some problems on a gentlemans yacht in new orleans,,( before anyone asks,, my fiance takes care of the animals while i am gone) I cannot drop everything, ( like work) just to run to the Vet at the drop of a hat. A man has to pay his bills... In the business I am in, ( I am the sales manager of a yacht company)We do what ever it takes to make things right witha customer, no matter what that is,,,I drove 300 miles to new orleans at the drop of a hat for a guy who just bought a yacht from me, just to find out that his, " not working air conditioning" was a simple switch on the control panel had not been flipped. I also spent a full day with him going over "concerns" of his with some other little things he was questioning.... In the business i am in, you make the customer happy! no if ands or buts... and i guess i just expect the same when i do business with someone...