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Old 04-25-2004, 10:16 AM   #1
psykoink
Thumbs up Charles Greyhosky/Hellfire Reptiles

I just wanted to post a tread saying how great it was to deal with Joe from Hellfire Reptiles and his friend Chuck. I had placed a deposit on a pair of Formosa Cobras with Chuck a while back and just picked them up yesturday. Throughout the whole process of getting the money out and arranging pick-up from Joe and Chuck was absolulty flawless. As far as the Formosas go, AMAZING to say the least. Chuck picked me out a gorgeous pair, and I can say that I am absolutly satisfied in every way. Thanks you Joe and Chuck. I would highly recommend you guys to anyone looking for what you guys have. One of the easiest transactions with complete satisfaction I have ever experienced. Thanks again guys.
Chris Santamarina
New York
 
Old 04-25-2004, 11:09 AM   #2
JasonKaline
Hellfire Reptiles

Joe Yakelis at Hellfire reptiles is a top notch guy and business person. His animals are high quality and his willingness to help is unparalleled. There should be no hesitation to buy from him or anyone that he is personally associated with.

Jason Kaline
 
Old 04-25-2004, 07:25 PM   #3
Bill Rodriquez
HellFire Reptiles

I would like to make a little contribution to this post :

I have knowm Joe Yakelis for a good while, and consider him a good friend. He conducts bisiness in a very professinal manor, and his animals will always be Flawless Gems. If there ever is a problem which I would highly doubt, he will be the first one to make matters right. He is truly one of the Best guys in the Herp. industry today.


Thank You
Bill Rodriquez
 
Old 04-25-2004, 07:44 PM   #4
bachman
Great guy, and animals, yes, but the snakes you purchased are aberrant Monocled cobras. I, and a friend of mine bought the adult pair that put most of these babies out (actually they are probably grand kids to the ones we had).

Formosa is now Taiwan, and the only species of Naja from Taiwan is N. atra, and your snakes are not N. atra, they are N. kaouthia from Thailand. I recently sold my last few subadults (the adults were sold a couple of years ago), and everybody that got these animals from us were informed of them NOT being Formosa's, but people continue to call them that for some reason.

I realise that they may be called that, because thats what people know that particular variation for, but it is confusing alot of people.

I mean no disrespet to Joe, as he does have awsome flawless animals, and from what I been told is one of the best guys in the buisness to deal with.

Just trying to clear this up.

Chad Bachman
 
Old 04-25-2004, 11:45 PM   #5
psykoink
Formosa Cobras

Chad,
These animals were not produced by Joe, but a friend of his. I have been working with Cobras for some time now, and these are definitly not the abarant Kaouthia. They are N. atra. I do have a fairly extensive knowledge of Naja species. The adults are owned by a friend of Joe's. I have seen the abarant patterned Kaouthia you speak of, but these are nothing like that. Its easier to refer to them as Formosa, as that is what they are most commonly known as.
Thanks,
Chris Santamarina
 
Old 04-26-2004, 11:11 AM   #6
bachman
I know exactly what they are. If you do a scale count, or just wait to see the size the adults get you will realise they are in fact N. kaouthia.

A friend of mine in Florida produced these also (10+ years ago) and the adults were from Thailand. Maybe I'll get the few I just sold & send you some pics, they are orangish yellow with an aberrant pattern & they have a hood pattern (similar to N. atra).

Sorry, but they are N. kaouthia, and thought it would be helpful for you to know that.

We sold the adults and the entire clutch to a guy in S. Carolina, and from there they were dispersed everywhere. The adults that put most of these recent babies out were purchased by me (along with an adult pair of Leucistic spitters) from a guy in Hamburg who was from NY (I'm not going to mention his name).

I know you don't want to believe it, but they are N. kouthia. (very cool ones).

Chad Bachman
 
Old 04-26-2004, 04:16 PM   #7
psykoink
N. atra

Chad,
Thanks for the heads up, but the scale count thing has alraedy been done. I am not out to argue the point of if they are real N. atra or not. I just wanted to thank someone for doing me a solid, and would recommend him/them to anyone. I have a hard time understanding why everyone always try to discredit what someone else sells or has. This is one of the main reasons I almost never post anything due to the fact that in every post anyone ever writes, there is always someone who knows better. Its not my first cobra, nor is it my first time ever seeing one. I do appreciate the concern, but this wasnt a post for debate. Just trying to let a few people out there know of a great guy and a breeder of great animals.
Thanks,
Chris Santamarina
 
Old 04-26-2004, 04:23 PM   #8
bachman
I never meant to dicredit anyone, and I too have extensive experience with all kinds of naja (just sold over 50 naja actually).


Good luck with em, and sorry if I came on the wrong way.

Chad Bachman
 
Old 04-27-2004, 01:01 AM   #9
HellFire
First off all.....Chris (and everyone else that has contributed to this thread) thank you for taking the time to say a few nice words about your dealings with me and (Chris) the animals you recently received from Chuck. Your efforts are much appreciated and is the reason I treat others the way I'd like to be treated (which is something I really always try to do when it comes to this hobby).

Now, down to the issue at hand. This is getting a little rediculous. I've been watching this thread since Sunday. But to be honest, things have been too hectic for me to sit down and reply to it fairly in the last couple days. But since I'm getting emails and phone calls from other friends and customers saying "what's this all about? when are you going to get on there and say something?"...I thought I'd finally add to it.

The "formosa's" that were advertised are not my animals. They belong to my friend Chuck Greyhosky. The only involvement I have with these animals was advertising them for him; doing a friend a favor as friends do. Chuck is a stand up guy that I've known for some time. The quality of his animals and husbandry well exceeds what my standard would be for someone to put them on my table. Anyone that knows me, will tell you, that speaks volumes.

Chuck is not exactly computer (let's say) enthusiastic. He's also unfortunately on vacation right now. But I will bring this to his attention when he returns. I am NOT an elapid guy. I'm a viper guy. So I'm not about to get into an argument about an issue I'm not educated or experienced in. I admire them, sure. But I do not research them, study them or breed them. I couldn't tell you the difference between N. atra and N. kaouthia by casually observing them. They're not my bag. I am highly skilled at picking out albino monocleds though. For those that haven't picked up that little trick yet, it takes years to hone and master that feat of genius.

Now that I've told you what I don't know, let me tell you what I do know:

While talking to friends about this clutch, friends that are mutual aquaintences or friends of your's Chad told me of when you were selling your "formosas." They don't mention that they weren't atra, or that they were aberrant kaouthia. They only mention that they were FORMOSAS. These are the same animals that you mention selling a few years ago. So obviously, no matter what these are, the common name has stuck to describe the appearance, not the species.

One more thing that I do know, and keep in mind that I really know very little about these "Formosas" as far as nomenclature, IF, (GIANT FREAK'N IF) I or anyone else had what you describe as "aberrant kaouthia," and advertised them that way, someone would most definitely be bitching that the seller was trying to pass off what are really commonly known as "formosas," as something they're not. Think about that as well. That's not to say these aren't atra. As Chris has stated, they're not my animals. I simply don't know. Others feel that they do.

I've also seen your thread on KS warning (or educating, whichever you prefer) others about these "Formosas." Chad, whether you like it or not, the name is going to continue to describe the appearance, whether they're atra or kaouthia. That's what common names do, and these are the problems they inherit. The meaning of the name has been lost. Instead of locality, it now symbolizes the appearance.

You know, I've also heard great things about you Chad. And it was before I called one of our mutual friends asking "why is this guy breaking my a$$!?" And although I'm not an elapid enthusiast, I am intense about the species I AM enthusiastic about....that I keep, study, reasearch and breed....just like you. I understand your concern for what you feel to be "setting the record straight." Unfortunately, my name just happened to get tagged to the issue. That's fine in a forum of species discussion. But in this forum, it's about good guys and bad guys. I prefer to keep up what I've worked for - being a good guy. My concerns are, whether you realize it or not, you trying to set the record straight has put a view in the eyes of those I know (and don't know), as something that's destructive to me and what I've worked for.

I think highly of you Chad, mostly out of your dedication to your animals, and things I've heard from others. So why pi$$ on Chris's parade, even if that wasn't your intention? I know you stated that you thought folks were getting confused. But I doubt Chris or others were. And I'm not so sure that's what the issue is here of your concern. I think he knew exactly what he was getting and was damn excited about it. From reading his posts in this thread, I'd say he still is. Take care,

Joe Yakelis
 
Old 04-27-2004, 06:39 AM   #10
psykoink
Joe,
I really didnt mean to get you involved in this thread at all except to say that you were a great guy and that you helped me with my transaction with your friend Chuck. As its been stated from the begining, these were Chucks animals, and awsome ones at that. If this has caused you any grief, I am sorry. My intentions were good. I thought I would spread the good word for honest and very nice guys. The next time I guess I will e-mail the person thanking them personally instead of publically. I thought if others saw a good guy post (not that you need it Joe, your reputation is great already), it would single out the people who should be delt with. This is my last post on this matter. Again, sorry if this has caused any problems for you.
Thanks again,
Chris Santamarina
 

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