One More Reason to Test for Adenovirus

Actually, what's hardest is knowing that I've most likely put this virus into other households. That's what's devastating.

And yes, I absolutely know what my next step will be. I'm going to love my little dragons with all I've got, and do everything I can to further research on this virus. I've already offered any or all of my dragons to Dr. Jacobson for research, if he decides he needs them.

I also have plans of turning our website into an educational tool for this virus. The change of the website will be difficult, simply because I don't want to scare anyone. So, if anyone has any ideas on how to go about making that change without causing mass hysteria, please feel free to offer your ideas.

Yes, this virus is a very scary thing, but it's certainly not something that needs to be hidden, nor is it a death sentence for your dragons. In my humble opinion, that's something people need to know.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Actually, what's hardest is knowing that I've most likely put this virus into other households. That's what's devastating.

And yes, I absolutely know what my next step will be. I'm going to love my little dragons with all I've got, and do everything I can to further research on this virus. I've already offered any or all of my dragons to Dr. Jacobson for research, if he decides he needs them.

I also have plans of turning our website into an educational tool for this virus. The change of the website will be difficult, simply because I don't want to scare anyone. So, if anyone has any ideas on how to go about making that change without causing mass hysteria, please feel free to offer your ideas.

Yes, this virus is a very scary thing, but it's certainly not something that needs to be hidden, nor is it a death sentence for your dragons. In my humble opinion, that's something people need to know.

I wish you luck with the new website (I'm a technophobe so have no useful idea's for you, sorry)

I know its not much of a consolation for you, but the very fact that you made this thread helps people. Not a lot of people would admit to a problem that will affect their business/life so much. Your dragons may have the virus but they are some of the lucky ones because they have you.

As someone who doesn't breed bearded dragons but owns two of them, this issue is VERY scary. I only have a limited knowledge of adeno but I am hearing about issues all of the time. I have a young female dragon that has been sick off/on since we've had her. She came from a very reputable breeder who has said they've tested their dragons for adeno and have had no outbreaks. But, as we all are learning, there can be false negatives and I plan on having our female tested again very soon. I commend all of the breeders that have come out publicly and admitted having adeno positive breeders. For various reasons, I can only imagine how heartbreaking that is. In my own personal opinion, I do not agree with having an otherwise healthy dragon "put down" because they are adeno positive and should no longer breed. I have heard alot about Sunshine Dragons and really don't know what's true and what's not. But, from what I've read it seems there has been a cover-up on Sunshine's part where adeno is concerned. At some point though, it becomes about breeder responsibility. I can't imagine having thousands of dollars invested in multiple breeding dragons and having an adeno outbreak devastate my colonies. However, I honestly do not know how some breeders can still sell off babies from adeno positive parents. It seems very possible that if some breeders are selling off babies from adeno positive parents, that could infect and devastate breeding projects EVERYWHERE. Anyway, kudos to all of you that have participated in this in a responsible manner, whether it be admitting adeno positive breeders or trying to be proactive by having your breeders tested. Speaking as a consumer, it is very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by ravin7678

As someone who doesn't breed bearded dragons but owns two of them, this issue is VERY scary. I only have a limited knowledge of adeno but I am hearing about issues all of the time. I have a young female dragon that has been sick off/on since we've had her. She came from a very reputable breeder who has said they've tested their dragons for adeno and have had no outbreaks. But, as we all are learning, there can be false negatives and I plan on having our female tested again very soon. I commend all of the breeders that have come out publicly and admitted having adeno positive breeders. For various reasons, I can only imagine how heartbreaking that is. In my own personal opinion, I do not agree with having an otherwise healthy dragon "put down" because they are adeno positive and should no longer breed. I have heard alot about Sunshine Dragons and really don't know what's true and what's not. But, from what I've read it seems there has been a cover-up on Sunshine's part where adeno is concerned. At some point though, it becomes about breeder responsibility. I can't imagine having thousands of dollars invested in multiple breeding dragons and having an adeno outbreak devastate my colonies. However, I honestly do not know how some breeders can still sell off babies from adeno positive parents. It seems very possible that if some breeders are selling off babies from adeno positive parents, that could infect and devastate breeding projects EVERYWHERE. Anyway, kudos to all of you that have participated in this in a responsible manner, whether it be admitting adeno positive breeders or trying to be proactive by having your breeders tested. Speaking as a consumer, it is very much appreciated.

Absolutely fantastic post!
I'm a breeder, not a "big" breeder, but a breeder, and I completely agree that this is about breeder responsibility. I went into testing this year scared to death. Like most, not only do I have a whole lot of money invested in my breeding colony, but these are my babies. I've raised every one of them, and I love them more than I can say.
I decided to go with PCR testing after doing a couple fecal, its simply more reliable. It is more expensive, but I didn't want to worry about the reliability of the test. I had the tests done and held my breath.
As of today, we have the results back for everyone, and it looks like we've been pretty fortunate. We had our breeder results in a while ago, they are all negative. I was more worried about some of our "pets", Dragons that we have purchased over the years but are not the quality we require for breeders, but we love them, so to us, they are pretty special. We have 3 of these, and 1 of them has tested postive and has most likely been positive since birth.
Now Izzy, my positive girl is the dragon I love most. She has been sickly her whole life, and I've spent a lot of time nursing her and I can not imagine giving her up and I won't put her down. The hardest decision for me was deciding that I could not risk the rest of my colony, and today I found her a new home where she'll be an only child. I hate this decision.
My husband and I have worked with reptiles for years, and this isn't the first time we've seen a disease impact the reptile community. The question always comes down to what responsibility lies with the breeder, and in this, every one of us faces an ethical issue, do the right thing for the community as a whole, or not. It's that simple to me.
Reputable is as reputable does, and the two most ethical people I have seen to date, well three really, are Wendi from Neverland Dragons, Tere from Obsession, and Cheri from Pogona. They've acted with courage and integrity at a very difficult time for them personally.
For the consumer, buyer beware. Ask questions before you buy, make sure you're doing everything possible to buy dragons from negative parents. It may not completely negate the risks, I'm not sure anyone knows enough about this virus to guarantee that, but your chances of getting a healthy disease free dragon are much better that way.

May I ask what the difference is with the PCR testing and the fecal? I was going to have the fecal done, I have the kits here but if the other is better I may go that way. what is the cost, and where would I get it? I have 4 beardies that I would love to have checked. all are pets not breeders.

Thanks,
Robin.

Marissa-

I agree, excellent post. I would definitely work on getting your dragons tested, no matter what the breeder told you. If there's nothing else I've learned through this, it's that someone's reputation just isn't enough anymore. If you find an animal you like, great...get it, QUARANTINE it, and TEST it. Then, and only then, should you trust what you were told.

Denise-

I'm so glad you found Izzy a home. I know she means a lot to you, but because so little is known, it's just not worth the risk to your other animals. You've got some fantastic dragons, and I'd hate to see anything like this happen with you. Someone very wise once told me that they were seriously proud to be my friend...now it's coming right back at you. You made a difficult decision, but I personally think it was the right decision.

As for what you said about reputation and ethics, I'd have to agree about Wendy and Cheri. Both have worked incredibly hard to try to educate us about this virus, and for that, I thank them both.

Robin-

I am not ignoring your post, but I really think someone (read: Denise) should answer. All my testing was fecals, so I'm really not too familiar with the PCR testing.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I am so sorry to hear about your dragons..My heart goes out to you..I had all mine tested a few months ago..All tests came back neg.

Hey Lynn!!! You don't know me but I've heard LOTS about you from Mickey Hinkle (great breeder all the way around) in Omaha. I will be looking for great babies from you this spring! Mickey and Brenda are GREAT! Very honest and respectable breeders of EVERY kind of reptile! Actually, our first dragon (Sparticus) came from them and he's been nothing but healthy, colorful and vibrant. We paid 75 bucks for him. We paid 200 bucks for the female we have had problems with from day 1. Mickey and Brenda are the bomb! If you two are on here ever, congrats on your upcoming new baby boy!!!!

Originally Posted by ravin7678

Hey Lynn!!! You don't know me but I've heard LOTS about you from Mickey Hinkle (great breeder all the way around) in Omaha. I will be looking for great babies from you this spring! Mickey and Brenda are GREAT! Very honest and respectable breeders of EVERY kind of reptile! Actually, our first dragon (Sparticus) came from them and he's been nothing but healthy, colorful and vibrant. We paid 75 bucks for him. We paid 200 bucks for the female we have had problems with from day 1. Mickey and Brenda are the bomb! If you two are on here ever, congrats on your upcoming new baby boy!!!!

I'm so sorry Tere. I've been on your website before "adeno" and know what great dragons you have. I just had to give great props to our local breeder here in Omaha. I don't know...I guess in all of this adeno sadness I had to share something good. Our little female baby "Saphira" will be retested for adeno within the next month or so. We used to post our experiences with her on other forums due to her health issues...but certain breeders are given "carte blanche" no matter what you say. I sincerely HOPE and PRAY that are little Saphira doesn't have adeno. I cannot tell you how much we respect you for keeping your adeno positive dragons. I used to rescue labrador retrievers from abused, abandoned, neglected homes...so I have some experience where that is concerned. You are a TRUE human soul. Love always to you......

Originally Posted by Dream

May I ask what the difference is with the PCR testing and the fecal? I was going to have the fecal done, I have the kits here but if the other is better I may go that way. what is the cost, and where would I get it? I have 4 beardies that I would love to have checked. all are pets not breeders.

Thanks,
Robin.

The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.
There are a few real differences between the tests. PCR testing is handled like any other blood test. The fecal testing requires very specific handling in order for the test to be reliable, and, at least for me, with incorrect sanitation if you have multiple dragons being tested, you can actually accidently cross contaminate your samples. I didn't want to risk false positive or false negative readings, I didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

Originally Posted by Denisebme

The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw (Its a blood test). If I remember correctly, the tests are $65 from Dr. Jacobson, or whatever your vet and lab charges are.
There are a few real differences between the tests. PCR testing is handled like any other blood test. The fecal testing requires very specific handling in order for the test to be reliable, and, at least for me, with incorrect sanitation if you have multiple dragons being tested, you can actually accidently cross contaminate your samples. I didn't want to risk false positive or false negative readings, I didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

Hi Denise,

I am here is CA also I am in need of some info from you, I have about 22 Dragons I need tested and I have no idea were to go, Can you please email me with you Vet info where you had yours tested? calientedragons@msn.com

I would greatly apprietiate it! I live in Rancho Cucamonga area so I am not so far from you, I have been having a hard time finding a vet that really knows much about Dragons..

Thanks so much for any help,

Heidi