Exotics-r-us/ Ray Hunter/ Ricky D

Chris, not only is he good at sidestepping your questions, He still has not answered why he posts all his lies about Me and Ricky, then turns around and sneaks me an e-mail telling me that he still thinks I am a good guy, and that he thinks Ricky is responcible for ill snakes being shipped. He seems to have this strange fixation about how Ricky and I are doing. Neither one of them have made any contact with Ricky (other than sending an e-mail 4 days after he unpacked the snakes to claim the death of a baby black neck spitter). I offered both him and Ken Ricky's phone number to call him and try to work out an arrangement , but last I checked with Ricky, neither have made any contact with him. It is easier to sit back and make up lies to attempt to bash a mere employee who does not make such decisions. We obviously have invoices to prove when shipments came in, so I can prove that we have had the animals over 8 weeks. If Kevin thinks I might perhaps alter the documents, he could call MIA , Fish and Wildlife, and Customs (all of which won't alter records) and get a list of every shipment we got in with the dates. I bet he won't do that, because that would prove him to be the liar he is. (Go ahead, Kevin, here is your big chance to show everyone that you are not lying. I bet you won't do it) I just checked the invoice myself. The LAST shipment that we got that had any gaboons on it was 8/6/2003 from Uganda. So I stand corrected, Kevin, It was NOT 8 weeks that we had them, it was 12. Crappy, skinny imports do not last 12 weeks! and the bigest gaboon I sent you was NOT 5 feet like you lied about, it was maybe 3 at most. So don't try to pass off a 5 foot gaboon that weighed 5 pounds. If I just paid nearly a thousand dollars for a shipment of snakes, and they came in as bad as he claims, I would be on the phone within minutes, not 4-10 days latter. was told by Ken that he would have Kevin send me the pics of the snakes that died, and that was tree days ago, and I have yet to recieve the pics. Hmmm! And I have no doubt at all that Kevin could go to his freezer and pull out a bunch of snakes and take pictures of them. I am sure he has an entire chest freezer packed with a variety of dead snakes. Kevin himself has told me that he has a high mortality rate after he does his venomoid surgery. And Chris, you bring up a valid point... I should have stopped selling to him a long time ago. That won't happen again.

To sum it all up, Ricky agreed to allow me to make good on the 2 snakes he claimed (4 days after recieving them), and we will do so if they choose. I suspect that Kevin's well known reputation of making false claims, along with the 10 day delay of notification, was the reason for him not being willing to give credit for the rest of the snakes that allegedly died at his facility. It is also odd that Kevin is plugging Jay at Exotic Jungle (who I happen to like, and respect very much), yet on the phone he tells me how everything Jay sends him arrives dead or dies shortly afterward, and they are never going to do any business with him again. (starting to see a pattern???)

I know that I am breaking my own rule about responding to his silly tantrum-like posts, but this one is actually humorous watching him lie and then contradict himself in his e-mails. His charactor is acurately summed up by himself when you read his posts, then read his e-mail. Condemed by his own mouth and lies.
All the very Best!
Ray Hunter

you obviously don't care what anyone has to say, unless it fits your motives or ideas, for example:

"While since you aren't a licensed vet, what are you using for anesthesia when you cut into these snakes?
How are you able to get analgesics or antibiotics for their post-op recovery?
What kind of autoclave do you use to sterilize your surgical equiptment?

That's what I thought....no I think the term "hackjob" fits your illegal practice well."

>> How in heck do you get this from what I posted? I simply said that YES, I SOLD venomoids. DO YOU ASK EVERYONE WITH VENOMOIDS ABOUT THE SURGEON BEING A VET? Obviously, you are trying to make me look bad, but I have yet to figure out why except for the fact that you are against venomoids and obviously are looking to crucify someone to make yourself feel better. But I am not going to play your little tune and I am going to simply leave the post on Ray alone, tell you it was the truth, tell you that I am not going to argue or defend myself to you, I don't have to, everyone that knows me and has dealt with me can have their opinions, we can just keep an eye on this forum and see who has more problems with people and is more shady.
Kevin Smith

"Kevin himself has told me that he has a high mortality rate after he does his venomoid surgery. And Chris, you bring up a valid point... I should have stopped selling to him a long time ago. That won't happen again"

YOU ARE THE BIGGEST SCUMBAG LIAR I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH IN MY ENTIRE LIFE! I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT TO YOU, THE ONLY TIME THAT WE HAVE SPOKEN IS WENT YOU HAVE SENT B GRADE ANIMALS. I HAVE NEVER TOLD YOU THAT " I HAD A HIGH MORTALITY RATE" But I DID say that "THE ANIMALS THAT CAME FROM YOU HAVE A HIGH MORTALITY RATE". It doesn't take a venomoid surgery to kill the animals from you guys, they die just fine on their own. Sidestepping what question? I answered exactly on the point. I can't wait to see what you have to say when others start posting on here about what you have said. I only said that you were talking trash about Ricky to show how you really are. I understand you not admitting it on a public forum because you don't want to lose you job or deal with the consequences of your trash talking, but YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SAID. I am not going to argue the point. I GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU RAY, IF YOU ARE SO AGAINST VENOMOIDS NOW, WHY THE HELL DID YOU SEND A BUNCH TO GET FIXED? AND THEN THREW A "TANTRUM" WHEN YOU GOT THE SAME CRAP ANIMALS BACK THAT YOU SENT? I am not going to argue any of this with you anymore. that is not what the BOI is for. YOU HAVE ALREADY TRIED TO ACCUSE ME OF HAVING SICK ANIMALS IN THE FREEZER AND TRYING TO SWITCH THEM OUT WITH THE ONES THAT YOU SENT. WELL I DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE THE ANIMALS YOU SENT ARE THE ONLY ONES IN THE FREEZER. There is no point in arguing this over and over with you. YOU ARE A COMPLETE LIAR AND PRETTY TWO FACED, I DON'T CARE IF ANYONE BELIEVES MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT YOU OR NOT, THAT IS THERE MONEY AND THEIR PROBLEMS. The last thing I am going to respond to you about is the fact that you are trying to slam me for emailing you, EVERYONE CAN SCROLL BACK ON THIS THREAD AND SEE WHERE YOU TOLD ME TO EMAIL YOU PRIVATELY AND THEN YOU TURNED AROUND AND BROUGHT IT BACK ON HERE, WHY ARE YOU TRYING SO HARD TO KEEP IT ON HERE RAY????
That's it, I am done with you, you can have the last word Ray, because for someone that states over and over that they don't want to argue, you sure are posting alot.
Kevin Smith

Ray hunter states in his first post...

Kevin then performs his own venomoid surgery on them.

You never denied this allegation. I asked if it was true and you said that's not the point. You later went on to say.....

just because someone has a license, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING!

I think it's pretty safe to say that you don't have a qualified reptile veterinary surgeon doing these surgeries for you. It's either you or one of your friends.
There are very few vets who are willing to do this type of surgery due to ethical reasons. The few that do that I am aware of are veterinarians that specialize in herps. You average dog/cat vet is not doing surgeries on venomous snakes.

So I'll ask one more time....when these surgeries are illegally performed, are you cutting into these snakes while they are wide awake with no anesthesia.
Or are you somehow able to illegally obtain a controlled substance such as Isofluorane to make these garage surgeries more humane?
Just curious how a layperson goes about creating some of those sunken in faced abominations that show up in the Kingsnake venomous classifieds..

"Just curious how a layperson goes about creating some of those sunken in faced abominations that show up in the Kingsnake venomous classifieds.."

Now that you have proven to be an anti venomoid person that is asking questions to simply prove your close minded opinions and beliefs to the rest of the world because of your own insecurities, I am not going to get into a flame war with you and I am not going to prove myself or the venomoid point, because it is wasted energy, because no matter how much someone proves something to you, you still believe what you believe and are not going to listen or try to understand anything except your own voice.
Kevin Smith

Ok, ok, ok, we get it Kevin: You're not going to openly admit to performing surgery illegally, but you're not going to come out and deny it either. You don't like the laws requiring venomoid surgeries to be performed by licensed veterinarians? Let me know if you need an appendectomy, I've got a friend who's a butcher at the meat market, and he's awe inspiring with a sharp knife. I'm sure he'd do a great job on you.

I am not going to get into a flame war with you and I am not going to prove myself or the venomoid point, because it is wasted energy, because no matter how much someone proves something to you, you still believe what you believe and are not going to listen or try to understand anything except your own voice.

Do you not see that this is exactly what YOU are doing? I don't care if he sent you snakes with candy corn glued to their scales (ok, I *would* care if he did that, but you get the point), you didn't follow the TOS. Everything past that point is moot.

You've had a long history of B-grade animals? Well then why the heck are you still supporting the business? Pony up some additional money and buy from a more consistent importer!

It really irks me when someone gets aggravated at someone else, then decides to bring up a long history of inappropriate behavior by the other party. Do you know what this says? It says "I never cared about your dishonesty (or whichever unsavory characteristics apply) before, but now that you're behaving that way towards me, I'm going to point it out that you've been this way FOREVER!!"

I'm not trying to debate whether creating venomoids is right or wrong.
Just pointing out that performing surgery for profit when you don't have a veterinary license is illegal.
...and performing an invasive surgery without the use of anesthetics is just plain cruel.
If you were spaying dogs in your garage for a profit I'd feel the same way.

Kevin, as you pointed out, I did and do welcome anyone to call or e-mail me anytime they wish. BUT... the point I was making was that you changed your attitude in your e-mail from calling me names (like the child that you appear to be) to stateing that you still think I am a god guy. and that Ricky is the bad guy. You said it, not me. You did not do so hot in reading comprehension, did you?
You can say whatever you want, but I have had several phone conversations with you in the past year, And you DID say that because you just learned how to do venomoid surgery, you have had a high mortality rate. Sorry if you don't remember what you said. You do seem to have selective memory. I suppose you did not really make the comments about Jay at Exotic Jungle also, Right??? BTW, we stopped selling venomoids a long time ago. That does not mean that I don't think people do not have the right to have them if they choose, but we will never sell them again. So I have no Idea about what you are lying about now. I'm sure you can come up with a colorfull story to go with your remark.

Ok, Since you are still so obviously obsessed with my relationship with Ricky, Please do tell us all exactly what I said to trash Ricky (my best friend, and brother). He and I could use some more good laughter from you. For your information, but not that it is any of your business, Ricky is helping me get my own business going, one that has nothing to do with reptiles. Perhaps I mentioned this to you as well as Ken, and you took it to mean that we are having issues. If so, I now set the record straight. See if you can comprehend that. He and I have never gotten along any better than we are. So go ahead and think up some comedy on this topic that you are so obsessed about.

Ok, so lets all see the gorry pics of the "B-grade" animals you have in the freezer. How long does it take for you to send me the pics???

No, I am not trying to argue with you, I am just having a little fun watching you convict yourself. You mentioned throwing a tantrum... as I understand it, typing in all caps on the internet refers to yelling (or is that only with e-mails?). If that is the case, you seem to be the one throwing a tantrum (just look at your last post). You misused the BOI with your first post when you made up all your lies to make yourself look better (like the poor victim). What Ed, and many others told me about you was a long time ago when you were still partners with him, so I believe (and now see) that he was being truethful, as you and he were still friends at the time. I also find it odd that Ken tells me all the Rinkhals you "fixed" died except 2, yet a few days ago you tell me that they are all doing well. (there goes that pattern again) Go ahead and solicite all your friends to post whatever they want about us, I did not have to call my friends and ask them to post on this thread.

Now, go have a good cry, and you will feel better.
Ray Hunter

Lets see these pics of these emanciated animals.
Jesse Smith

Good call chris,
IF you aren't a DVM. Where are you getting anasteshia? Whipcream bottles?
If you are performing this surgery without proper anasteshia and proper post-op care, then you are sick.VERY SICK.
Jesse Smith