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Old 10-25-2006, 12:52 AM   #21
evansnakes
Lee vouched for his friend and then saw to it that I did not get paid. He aided somebody to steal from me. I know that for a fact. He then told me he would get me the money and when the guy came to the show, Lee told him "don't worry about it." He is a liar.

The city re-zoned Lee's property to get rid of his show. It was the cheapest way to solve the ongoing problems with him.

Lee, you allowed people to sell venomous animals and endangered animals at your show. You knew the animals came accross state lines with those dealers as you were also offered those animals. You did nothing about it. You sell venomous animals which is illegal in your state. You keep telling everyone you have permits that allow you to do so. The state and federal authorities have said there is no such condition out of a home. Even at your show, the state level herpetologist and enforcement officers that were there had a laundry list of violations. You dismiss them as misdemeanors but you hurt the state and the industry as a whole allowing people to break the law at your show and then defending them for doing it. It is fine if you dissagree with the state. Go fight them. You don't however allow dealers to sell illegal animals and you don't pretend it is ok.

I gave you cash at the show Lee. I did not give Gail anything. And I never "ran" out of your filthy show. I was always one of the last vendors to leave. Anyone that has ever been there knows that.

As for the sick albino rattlesnakes, you made a mistake. They were vet examined, diagnosed and frozen, then shown to a couple people that you will not badmouth on here or anywhere else Lee and they can verify you sold me sick animals that died. And they saw the dead animals in person. I could have lost many other animals from a very nasty virus they had if I had not put them in another room just in case. And I did not take them for free Lee. I paid you some of the money you wanted for those and even after I offered you the dead snakes and vet work-up as well as people you trsusted vouching for the fact that they were sick and were then dead, you still wanted to get paid for them. I never should have dealt with you again.

Oh, on the memory thing, I talked to you the night before the show Lee, because I was not sure if I was going or not and you wanted to know if I would be using my tables or not, and you had the monitor and told me about it. I came in the show in the morning before I set up to look at it.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 01:13 AM   #22
Dennis Hultman
This transaction is three years old?
 
Old 10-25-2006, 05:35 AM   #23
darkbloodwyvern
Maybe it's just me, but if Lee had wanted his money so bad, he couldn't have posted this here, oh say, two years ago???!!!
I mean, some people have waited about a year to post grievances about deals gone sour and the best advice i see them getting is "too bad, you shouldn't have waited so long..."
If you can't whine to a dealer/breeder within a year of a "negative transaction", then you obviously don't deserve your money back, especially when you don't set and agreed on price-if you want to sell the blasted monitor for $1000, stick to your guns and don't settle for less, if you say "we'll see what happens" and the person sells it for less than what they paid you for it (years later i might add because it is in no way a desirable animal) Then you really don't have a case. Set a agreed on price, without it, you can't expect anymore than you originally get. If Lee felt the need to prove a point, he should have asked for the money within the time before Evan even sold the monitor, whether or not he needed the money.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 11:30 AM   #24
Griz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Watson
I ran 24 shows a year with an average of
960 people thru the door. We averaged 1 DNR raid every 15 years with 16 misdemener tickets. These are facts not fiction like deadbeats would have you believe. Lee Watson
Lee, with all due respect, if you are going to make statements of fact, like you did above, then please make them harder to validate then this. Case in point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Herald
Arrests Made at Reptile Show in Illinois
Law enforcement officials from the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, the Food and Drug Administration, the Illinois Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been conducting a yearlong investigation into illegal reptile trade that climaxed at a “reptile swap” in mid September. Despite the raid, Lee Watson’s farm in Streamwood, the site of the swap for 12 years, has not been shut down. Some of the vendors were conducting legal trade, however, many were buying and selling protected species, unlicensed animals and undersized turtles. Illinois Conservation Police Investigator Michael Lyne said one man had more than 600 undersized turtles and was charged with “not having a license, not keeping records, commercialization of the resources and being over the limit. He was the worst in the number of turtles – but there were many others.” Lyne said that there is a 400 percent mark-up on baby turtles, which makes them a profitable venture. Fourteen vendors at the show were arrested, at least three more arrests are pending and 37 misdemeanor citations were issued. Source: Daily Herald, September 17, 2002."
At his one raid alone you had 37 citations written. Then you have this which occurred 8 years before the one above in which 40 citations were issued:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EB
The Streamwood, IL Reptile Swap held monthly on the farm of long-time member Lee Watson was featured in a front page Chicago Tribune article on June 22, 1994. After detailing the hot market for exotic animals, the article stated that law-enforcement agents say that swaps are "the next phase of our investigation." They feel that there is an underground network of illicit animal traders. Last year 22 reptile vendors were charged with more than 40 violations, although most were misdemeanors. Fines ranged from $50 to $900 and one case remains to be settled. Watson was quoted "I though it was all a lot of bunk. That was the biggest travesty of justice I've ever seen." Enforcement agents felt they "could only scratch the surface in the six or seven months [they] were there." In addition a Department of Conservation official said that reptile trading in Streamwood is not currently being conducted because they were forced to turn to other cases. (Note: The Streamwood Swap Meet is not sponsored by or connected with the CHS in any way except that a lot of our members attend. EB)
And I am sure this is just scratching the surface.

Griz
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:04 PM   #25
bamasmith
I knew this thread was going to turn out like this.I back Evan and his business 100%.He is a stand-up guy.I do'nt know this Lee Watson,but I knew when I saw the title of this thread that it would turn in Evan's favor.I will continue to support him.I understand that Evan maybe should'nt have taken the animal with him knowing this dudes background.Evan was trying to help Lee out is the way I look at it.Some of you may say that Evan was wrong in accusing Lee of aiding this other guy that ripped him(Evan)off on the python.Well to me,Lee is showing his true colors.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:06 PM   #26
viridisnakes
The swap

I think that the statements of filthy scum show are outrageous. I attended and sold at many of these shows. Yes. There were some things that could have been better. But to slam him over the show is rediculous. Lee offered a great opportunity for people to see and purchase everything from the worst wc crap to the best high dollar CB animals.

I am willing to bet the same whiners who are complaining about the show are the same guys who came twice a month. Feeders were cheap and admission was cheap. It was up to you to continue to support the low lifes selling cornsnakes telling people that they would eat apples (actually saw this happen there in the early 90s). It was not Lee's responsibilty to watch over every transaction at the show. I would bet many less than ethical transactions happen at the big shows too. It is our (herp community) lack of will to run these low lifes out of the business that is the cause, not Lee.

As far as Lee's ability to sell venomous. He is correct in Illinois, if you are liscensed by the USDA AWA, you are considered a zoo and are not bound by the state dangerous animals law. Now, if he was knowingly selling to people not allowed to have them such as "Illinois residents" that is another matter. And you have shown no proof of that.

As far as bad deals etc. It is impossible to sell animals on a monthly basis and not have issues. If you agreed on a price that is the deal, NOT what you decide later. Also you can't bring post deals into the mix, to get even.

This is a good lesson for all. Make the deal done ( paid in full) on the day of the transaction, or hold the animal back until paid. Get guarrantees or full price in writing.

Chris
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:21 PM   #27
Jim O
This thread may as well be in a reptile soap opera.

The issue of Lee Watson's show being in violation of laws is irrelevant to this thread, But if it were relevant, what were you doing selling there Evan? The show was good enough for you to peddle your wares for years and now all that time it was a piece of crap? And if you believed that venomous animals were strictly illegal in his state, why were you buying them from him? That reminds me of the scene from the movie Casablanca where the chief of police is "shocked" to find out that gambling is going on in Rick's Cafe, and then is handed his winnings. You can't have it both ways. If one is going to take the high road then one needs to take the high road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evansnakes
Lee Watson called me and told me that he wanted to sell me a "baby" crocodile monitor. I immediately asked him how large it was as so many people call them babies when they are in fact quite large. So I told him that I would take a look at it when I came to his next show the following weekend (I used to be a vendor at many of his shows).

When I got to the show Lee showed me the animal and as I thought the case may be, it was very far from a baby and was in fact a large juvenile. Many months of size difference. Babies sell well and I had a customer for one, as I told Lee, this animal was too large to call a baby many many times over and I would see if he wanted it but did not think he would. I also told Lee that I would not pay nearly as much for the animal as it was not as described. At the time babies were selling for $1000 each, while animals the size of that one were worth half that.
But you took the animal voluntarily (or did he have a gun to your head?), paid him $115 and to date have not paid the balance. A deal is a deal. If you thought the animal was worth half of $1000, or $500, then buying it for $400 and making a 25% profit is not a bad deal. You gambled and lost. That doesn't change your obligation to pay what you owe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by evansnakes
Lee vouched for his friend and then saw to it that I did not get paid. He aided somebody to steal from me. I know that for a fact. He then told me he would get me the money and when the guy came to the show, Lee told him "don't worry about it." He is a liar.
Evan, you may be pretty well respected here, but even you need to provide some "proof" of this. Otherwise it's libelous. Care to enlighten the rest of us on how you "know that for a fact"?


And Lee, this is three years old. What have you done to collect during this time? Why bring it here now?


Bottom line. Here's another situation that should not have come to the BOI. Maybe the two parties ought to get together over the phone and settle this like grown men.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:26 PM   #28
ravensgait
Seems to me that it doesn't matter if it was yesterday or last year if ya owe the money you owe the money. Don't know either of these guys but one says the other owes him money.. Evan said he took the animal and was going to sell it and pay later guess he never paid and he doesn't deny that he didn't pay.

Trying to trash someone you owe money to here(deserved or not) is pretty low in my book. Pay the guy and put this behind you before this gets to 50 pages and sits at the top of the BOI for a month or two. Randy
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:27 PM   #29
Jim O
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbxcursion
People in this area know Watson's a scammer, this does not surprise me at all.
Brandon,

This may be true bit if you're going to make an accusation like this how about some facts?

And how about following the site's rules and giving your full name. Your posts will be deleted without it.
 
Old 10-25-2006, 12:49 PM   #30
Chameleon Company
I don't feel that I have seen enough info to say with any certainty who owes who money, and for now it seems that the claim wouldn't have a prayer in court. Doesn't make it not valid, just that it seemed to really based more on people's word and honor, and not clearer evidence.

Three years is a long time. Maybe Lee was excessively patient on this one before going this public about it. Judging from a response that hurled mud at everything, my guess is that this claim and related animosities have not been inactive in the interim, just not posted here.

In complete agreement with you Randy on this one. Didn't know there was a statute of limitations on one's word or honor. Apparently there is in a couple of neighborhoods out there.
 

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