Evan Stahl Please pay me.

Griz,
I don't have any problem with the reasoning process that you use, and just about every one of us would import everything that we knew about someone when deciding who to believe. Paraphrasing here, but knowing someone as a jerk, and using that as a basis for an opinion in a debate as to who is right or wrong, is different from posting here "he's a jerk", which doesn't speak to the facts for the rest of us, and is frankly nauseous at times.

Admittedly, if Chris Johnson or Ray Torres came here crying that someone owed them $300, they would be howled off the stage, and woe be the devil's advocate who tried to help them make their case ..... I believe I am familiar with that role BTW I feel comfortable saying that in the eyes of many, Lee has enough good-standing to make his claim, with at least a few of us expecting a debate within the parameters of whatever money issues may exist between Evan and Lee. All these other superfluous allegations and mud-slingings are not enhancing Evan's position, IMMHO. In my take on it all, only Evan and Lee know whether Evan "owe's" the money within a broader context, not to be confused with my belief that Evan should have paid it back when he acknowledged begrudgingly that he did owe it. IMMHO again, in this thread, Evan, not Lee, was Evan's own worst enemy.

Opinions-- we all have them but we also need to go by what has been posted here.
Lee has said he is owed money by Evan and Evan has said he didn't pay more that the $115.00 for an animal it appears he was trying to sell for a $1000.00. If the emails Lee provided are correct then Evan knew he owed the $285.00.

Evan instead of saying my bad and taking care of it has slammed Lee and even accused him (without proof) of stealing for him and other actions. Evan threads like this are why Rich said he loosened the rules here so people can show their true selves which you have done. That bullet wound in your foot must hurt!

Not knowing either party here if I was looking to do business with either one, after reading this thread I'd have to say no way to buying from Evan and do some real research on Lee before giving him money.
Randy

Originally Posted by Chameleon Company

In my take on it all, only Evan and Lee know whether Evan "owe's" the money within a broader context, not to be confused with my belief that Evan should have paid it back when he acknowledged begrudgingly that he did owe it. IMMHO again, in this thread, Evan, not Lee, was Evan's own worst enemy.

I could not agree more. AND it is the very reason why I made the comment that the benefit of the doubt, for me anyways, will be given to Evan. Unfortunately, there is the train of thought that suggests that all proof has to be verifiable to this forum. Unfortunately, many times due to situations beyond one's control, this is not the case. Confidentiality, among other things, are catalysts for such stances. Evan may not be able to "prove" to this forum that Lee helped perpetuate the thefts against him. However, that lack of "verifiable forum proof" should not be a factor in Evans decision to pay Lee back.

With that being said, if Evan has the proof to post then he should do just that. But, Evan's reputation precedes him by a long enough margin that I accept him at his word regarding this situation.

A man would be a fool to not take into consideration all mitigating factors in trying to determine which side of this fence they should sit on, wouldn't they? Thus the fallacy of the BOI. Not every situation can be resolved nor fully explained to the overall satisfaction of this board. Sometimes telling the BOI to "screw itself" is still "doing the right and ethical thing," don't you think?

Griz

Griz,
I believe that I am in 110% agreement with your above post , except to distinguish that while you have a relationship with Evan which allows you to put more credence in what he says, and judge both entities beyond the context of this thread, I can't make the same assumptions as I do not know either. I do know several folks, though, who know Lee very well, and swear by him, not at him.

Originally Posted by Chameleon Company

Griz,
I believe that I am in 110% agreement with your above post , except to distinguish that while you have a relationship with Evan which allows you to put more credence in what he says, and judge both entities beyond the context of this thread, I can't make the same assumptions as I do not know either. I do know several folks, though, who know Lee very well, and swear by him, not at him.

Then I think it's best that everyone allows these two to do their own thing off this board. Will it be worked out? That's up to them but for anyone on this board to believe that they can make a rational and sound judgement based upon what has been provided here, especially regarding a situation from 3 years ago, is naive at best.

Just leave things alone people and allow these two to get back to their own business. As Lee has clearly stated, it's not about the money. This was done on a dare so if he is placing so little importance upon this situation then I believe that speaks volumes regarding the amount of time we put into it. It won't be resolved here thus some things are best left alone.

Griz

Originally Posted by Griz

Then I think it's best that everyone allows these two to do their own thing off this board. Will it be worked out? That's up to them but for anyone on this board to believe that they can make a rational and sound judgement based upon what has been provided here, especially regarding a situation from 3 years ago, is naive at best.

Just leave things alone people and allow these two to get back to their own business. As Lee has clearly stated, it's not about the money. This was done on a dare so if he is placing so little importance upon this situation then I believe that speaks volumes regarding the amount of time we put into it. It won't be resolved here thus some things are best left alone.

Griz

I agree with this, but then I said it in post #27, long before the "on a bet" post by Lee.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Bottom line. Here's another situation that should not have come to the BOI. Maybe the two parties ought to get together over the phone and settle this like grown men.

Of course an assumption that they were two grown men (or even that one of them was) may have been giving way too much credit on my part.

Okay, can you boyz please Stop the madness I think we have read enough to know that this situation will not work itself out!! I mean common this stuff is three years old and they have not found a common resolution? Give me a break already! When will it end!!!! And let me make it clear that I have no vested interst in either one of the men that this thread has to do with. So call it a draw and lets move on shall we???

I find it very funny that people in this thread and on this site really feel free to make assumptions about things based on only their opinions with no facts to support them.

In Lee's emails, I see nothing but evidence that backs up exactly what I said took place. Everything I have said, I said then, years ago, to him. Why would you assume the money mentioned in the emails is about the monitor? Why would you assume that when I mentioned the dead rattlesnakes it would not have had something to do with that deal? I told him I would pay him because I thought we were friends and he was pressuring me to pay him. Once I heard all the smack he was talking about me my opinion of him changed. Once my vet told me it was a virus that killed the snakes, My opinion of owing him money changed. Then for some mysterious reason he refused to accept his dead snakes back and insisted to people that I had his snakes and was lying about them being dead, even though I paid money towards them and a good mutual friend of ours was holding the dead animals and telling Lee that they were his (he was there when I got them and saw them again at my house) and had not done well for me since day one and that I had proof of that in writing from my vet who had examined one for me. And as I said, I communicated to Lee repeatedly that they were not doing well and that I was not happy with them.

It was assumed when I said retic that it was an albino somebody posted. That is untrue.

It was assumed because I had a croc moinitor on the classifieds that it was the one I got from Lee, even though I had over 20 of them baby to large adult back then, and as I said in a previous statement, the animal I got from Lee I kept for over two years before I gave it to a local friend in trade. So let's see, 2003+2=2005. So again, another wrong assumption.

If I am making up stories about Lee's behavior now, why would my statements mirror private comments I made to him 3 years ago? It doesn't make sense. Lee is putting up the OJ defense but his emails are saying exactly what I have already said in this thread.

On this site there are hudreds of statements of people that have done business with me, be it buying from me, selling to me or trading, on the forum, on the BOI and in trader ratings, who have been very pleased with their dealings with me. If somebody wants to judge me based on attacks in this thread by people who do not know me and have never done business with me but think they know what happened 3-5 years ago in Chicago, then there is not much I am going to be able to do about that no matter what I say here since you have done nothing but attack me based on nothing but asumptions and suppositions.

1)Lee sold me sick animals that died. He knows they died and was offered the bodies and the information. He declined it. Now he says I cheated him even though he kept my money and wanted more for the dead animals.

2)Lee helped John Urban, who by the way I never said was a vendor, but mentioned specifically that he was a customer, take an animal from me and not pay me for it. You have known him for many years as a buyer at your show Lee. You would always comment about how pretty a blonde wife he had and hit on her.

3)Lee and I had a misunderstanding about a monitor. I offered it back. I offered to sell it for what it was worth in the market for him. I gave him money (not $115). We talked about it several times, I thought it was a resolved issue. Now it is a big thing 3 years later.

If somebody wants to drag this thread on for years and keep it up here, I could care a less and will not have anything new to say. It was all 3-5 years ago and I do not save emails forever or tape record private conversations, so how I would have evidence of this is just insane.

The statement Jim made about me trying to back out of a deal is also classic. I paid for an animal. The seller refused to ship it as agreed. I came to this board to try to protect my $3500 investment and guys like Jim say I am trying to back out of a deal? That is just classic. Funny, even the seller admitted I paid him and because of the thread made right on the deal. This is why even the founder of this website doesn't want to do this aymore. People who have nothing better to do than just lie, create their own facts and post whatever they want in response to things they know nothing about. Rich and I have talked about it and I agree with him. It is just old.

That's it, I am out, I am done. This is a dead issue that I will not waste any more energy on. Lee is a man who will break laws and lie for money. He got all he is going to get from me. Anyone that chooses to believe what they want instead of what is here in writing, knock yourselves out. It is not worth me being stressed over what you think when you are not willing to acknowledge my side of the story.

Bob, I appreciate what you have said here and what you have tried to do. But they will just now give you crap because you do not aggree with them. It isn't worth the arguments.

You can lead a horse to water .......

Originally Posted by evansnakes

I told him I would pay him because I thought we were friends and he was pressuring me to pay him. Once I heard all the smack he was talking about me my opinion of him changed.

It would seem that not only did your opinion of him change, but also your commitment to settle the outstanding debt.

Originally Posted by evansnakes

Anyone that chooses to believe what they want instead of what is here in writing, knock yourselves out.

What could you expect people to believe while reading quotes like the ones from you I've attached up above? From what you wrote it would tend to lead some folks to believe you only pay back friends that talk nicely about you.

I'll say again that I really think you're a nice guy and I wouldn't hesitate doing business with you. But you might lose some sales that total far more than the chump change Lee has requested..and all as a result of your stance on this. I think thats what everyone in favor of seeing Lee get paid has been trying to point out to you.