Kevin Smith - oreganus@hotmail

Kevin, I don't know Jeremy, so you may be right that he was goiing to rip you off. I don't have those answers. However I can get the answer to the shipping issue.

Again I ask you: Would you like me to have your shipping data retrieved through the Delta Cargo computer?

Ray

Ok,(I did not see your last reply) I will send you an e-mail in which you will need to express your consent for me to get the info from Delta. You or Jeremy will need to give me the date it was sent, the airport of departure, and the destination airport.

Ray

What a lot of posting that has nothing to do with the question I asked months ago.

From what I have read so far, Kevin shipped a venemoid king to Jeremy that was feeding on rodents while in his care. It reverted back to a snake eater while in Jeremy's care which is understandable with these snakes. Jeremy wants a refund. Kevin offered to take it back but Jeremy won't supply pics or ship it back. No snake means no refund. I totally agree with Kevin on that one. Kevin claims to have shipped Delta but Jeremy claims to have received it via UPS. That's a tough one to settle since neither has offered concrete proof of the shipper used. However, I think the shipping issue is taking away from the fact that Jeremy is bashing Kevin for selling him a snake that he is not happy with but will not return the snake for the refund. Does he even have the snake anymore? A pic takes les than a minute to take, download, and email.
From my understanding of what has happened so far, Jeremy is not entitled to a refund and should stop the negative postings since he was offered a refund but chose not to take the steps neccessary to get one.

Originally posted by oreganus
give it up, I know you are a cranky old woman that is always right, but frankly your nonsense is just getting plain old. No wonder I don't see you on kingsnake that much anymore, I guess they got sick of your rants also.
Kevin Smith

Yeah, I'm a cranky old lady. I don't like criminals at all. I guess I just have no sense of humor when it comes to people who do illegal and inhumane things with snakes that threaten to shut things down for all of us in the herp community.

Illegal home butchery of snakes for profit, sending king cobras in the mail, selling "venomoids" that can still envenomate. Silly me to get all cranky about little things like that.

Are you really too stupid to understand the potential consequences of your own actions, or just too greedy to care?

actaully spj it has sometihng to do with the questions you asked. would you have wanted a venemoid that kevin operated on himself??? especially when this was posts over 2 years ago, when other threads called him a butcherer in 03???? would you want a king cobra shipped via ups to you too?

Originally posted by SPJ
What a lot of posting that has nothing to do with the question I asked months ago.

From what I have read so far, Kevin shipped a venemoid king to Jeremy that was feeding on rodents while in his care. It reverted back to a snake eater while in Jeremy's care which is understandable with these snakes. Jeremy wants a refund. Kevin offered to take it back but Jeremy won't supply pics or ship it back. No snake means no refund. I totally agree with Kevin on that one. Kevin claims to have shipped Delta but Jeremy claims to have received it via UPS. That's a tough one to settle since neither has offered concrete proof of the shipper used. However, I think the shipping issue is taking away from the fact that Jeremy is bashing Kevin for selling him a snake that he is not happy with but will not return the snake for the refund. Does he even have the snake anymore? A pic takes les than a minute to take, download, and email.
From my understanding of what has happened so far, Jeremy is not entitled to a refund and should stop the negative postings since he was offered a refund but chose not to take the steps neccessary to get one.

Steve, you're right.

However, being as how kevin has nothing but contempt for this board and has stated on several occasions that heneedsnoneofusandhisbusinessisdoingquitewellthank you, I don't think he really cares what anyone here has to say about it. Being as how he has lied and threatened and tried to intimidate I have serious doubts about the shipping method used and frankly, I care more about that than I do whether or not he's getting the dirty end of the stick for once.

When the bad guys get screwed it just doesn't hurt the way it does when Joe Newbie gets taken advantage of.

I had figured to wait on figuring out the whole snake and where is it deal until we had the shipping method ironed out.

I guess I was letting my personal dislike of kevin get in the way.

Time for pics and documents from ALL parties.

Gentlemen.......

SPJ, I agrre with you for the most part. I don't understand why Jeremy would not want to resolve this my getting a $10 throw-away camera and getting the pics. If he is not an approved delta shipper, I'm sure he could find one to ship the cobra back to Kevin. I think it is good of Kevin to be willing to refund the money, and I don't see that he is obligated to do so.

However, IF and i stress IF, a cobra was sent via UPS, that is a big no no. If Kevin did not do this, it will be very easy to prove it either way, and I am willing to help either side obtain that proof. Sending a cobra by UPS is beyond stupid, if not illegal, and could result in negative issues for the rest of us that conduct business in a legal mannor. So even though it started off as one issue, a seperate issue has been opened up. If I were Kevin, I would be going out of my way to obtain (or retrieve) proof that I did not send a cobra by UPS.

As for the refund, if Jeremy wants his money, he will do what Kevin is asking, as I don't know of any reason that Kevin should be obligated to refund in the first place.

Just my two cents

Ray

Originally posted by COBRAMAN As for the refund, if Jeremy wants his money, he will do what Kevin is asking, as I don't know of any reason that Kevin should be obligated to refund in the first place.

I agree that Jeremy needs to cough up some pics or arrange to send the snake COD via a legal shipping route. No more UPS, please.

The reason a refund might be called for is that the snake was a "guaranteed" rodent feeder. Now I think it's a bit foolish to guarantee that a wild caught king will reliably eat ANYTHING after it's been stressed by shipping. I wouldn't make that kind of guarantee, but that does seem to be what Kevin did. Kevin does a lot of things that most of us wouldn't do.

I say "might" be called for, because it has been six months. If the snake has not had a good standard of care during that time, it could be in much worse condition. It's not fair to a dealer to take a snake, let its condition denegerate significantly over many months due to your lack of ability to provide good support care, and then demand a refund.

More importantly, it's not fair to the snake. The animal is the only one I really have much sympathy for in this particular transaction.

I want every one to know that the king was Venomous , not that it makes a difference to UPS when shipping illegally. As far as proof, I have the tracking number and the box (picture to come). I Have no problem shipping the snake COD using Delta, but we are currently dealing with a bigger issue.

To Both Parties.

Please post ALL your e-mails if you have them including any that confirms shipment and date it arrived.

Post any pictures of the King Kevin from your end any file photos of it and Jeremy as a hot keeper I know most take great pride in thier animals and have pics when they get it so please scann any you have of it.

As to the Delta / UPS . Please post any proof one way or another. Ray Hunter has stated he will help either party to prove through either of the carriers the info.

This desptie my views on Kevin is not a void issue. It is however a issue on potentially False advertising if the king was not a rodent feeder and an Issue on questionable shipping. couple others of more minor signifigants as well.

Jeremy If you need to return the King Via ups to Kevin I am sure there are a few large reptile dealers in NY that for a fee will ship the animal back to Kevin for you Legally.