TKReptile

All of my other snakes are healthy. All of my other snakes have been here alot longer than those two 2003 corn snakes were-I'm sure I would have noticed something by now. Also, other people have bought snakes from me in the past few months and have not reported problems with any of them.

Those two corn snakes arrived here skinny and cold, and were only here for a little under two weeks when they began showing symptoms. In under 30 days, one has died.

Yes, I should have emailed her sooner when they began regurgitating, but I thought it was just stress at first and gave them 10 days before attempting to feed again-like you are supposed to do before feeding any regurgitating animal to give them time to recouperate.

These two obviously had something wrong with them before they arrived here. These two sick corns were not exposed to any other animals during their quarantine. They were also in separate containers during quarantine, but in the same room.

I certainly hope that my efforts to quarantine them between the time they arrived and now have been successful and not spread what they have/had to the rest of my collection. The necropsy should show what was wrong with them.

I also hope that any others who bought cornsnakes from the same batch (according to her ad, the photo showed a bunch of cornsnakes, including the two I purchased, all in the same container together) will let me know their thoughts.

In my attempt to soak them Friday night in mild warm water, thinking they could have been constipated, the first one (which died last night) expelled this:



and the 2nd one expelled this:



I have never seen feces look like either before. Before soaking, both had very dark bellies, all the way up to 2" below their head. After soaking, the dark color disappeared, then came back Saturday. Then I woke up this morning to the first one upside down and dead.

The other is still hanging in there, but refused an f/t pink, a live pink, and anole scenting on both pinks. To be safe, the uneaten pinks were tossed away, not given to any other snake.

That really looks like sand to me. If you saved it try mashing it and see if it compacts. My bet is it won't. I've never seen granular bile before. There should still be some crystals inside the snakes so a necropsy is a good idea still.

I suspect they were severly impacted which would also lend to them being dehydrated.

Good luck but I highly doubt you had anything to do with them dying.

Wes Pollock

Both feces were in the water, and dumb me ended up dumping it down the drain. I'm sure if it is sand, there is probably some left inside the body and they will find it in the necropsy.

Clara, did you ask TK Reptile if they kept their cornsnakes on calci-sand? What type of substrate did you keep them on? I can clearly see that is calci-sand in the picture and it is not hard to understand why impactation would cause reguritation. I wish you the best of luck in attemps to keep the other guy alive.

I e-mailed her earlier today, but have not gotten any response back yet.

The animals were bought November 1, and the first one died on December 20. That's a lot longer than 2 weeks or even 30 days.

Not that it matters much, but TK's pictures in the ads only show one animal on a substrate, and it's bark.

Clara, what substrate did you keep the animals on?

What is the time frame for impaction of this degree? How long did TK have them before selling them? Is it possible they were eating well 6 or 7 weeks ago?

I contacted Krystle about this on the 18th

Was this on the 18th of November or 18th of December?

I contacted her a few minutes ago, and I am out $75.

I e-mailed her earlier today, but have not gotten any response back yet.

Clara, has she responded to you or not?

I am not taking sides here, just trying to get a clear picture of how the deal went, and Clara's is so far the only side posted, so it's the one I'm trying to clarify.

I keep all my baby herps on paper towel.

I'm not sure how long TKReptile had them before selling them to me.

18th of December.

No, she has still not replied back to me.

Clara,

Assuming the vet will verify that the deaths were due to impaction and can find traces of the calci-sand, I think it will be important that the vet verify the amount of time it would take for the animals to get to that condition if he is able.

It seems that TKReptiles is fairly new (less than a year), so it's quite possible they had no idea what the consequences of keeping them on Calci-sand were.

If your vet can verify the suspected cause of death, I think you should be due a refund regardless of the time frame if TK had kept them on the sand.

Good luck, and please let us know the results of the necropsy as soon as you can.

I did not hear about any problems till December 19, 2003 That is a month and a half after she had them in her care. I would have given her a refund after even 10 days after leaving my care if something happend. Clara Emailed me December 19, 2003, Here is her first letter to me... I am going to simply copy our entire conversation so I do not put different words in either of our mouths.

From: ChaosCat <chaoscat@lowerground.net>
To: Tkreptile@hotmail.com
Subject: zigzag/amel corns
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:33:23 -0800

Hi I bought the pair of zigzag amel corns from you in November, and both have only eaten a couple times for me, then regurgitated every meal after that. They will not eat, and are really skinny. Were the rest of them like this?

thanks,
Clara
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At 04:16 PM 12/19/2003 +0000, you wrote:

I never had an issue with any of the 12 I had regurgatating. I did have a pair of yellow ratsnakes that escaped and one just recently showed back up a few weeks ago, we have been feeding him. This last time we fed him he did reguge but only because it was to cold, its heat pad fell behind the table. Just make sure its super warm for them, it gets quite cold now at night. We just fed him again 2 nights ago and hes been fine since. They also were used to being in a small cage, if they are in a large cage simply put them in a deli cup with a little water dish inside the big cage, they will feel more secure. Make sure you dont house two snakes together, it tends to stress them out. Let me know how that helps.
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From: ChaosCat <chaoscat@lowerground.net>
To: "TKreptile Krystle Treadwell and Tony Somohano" <tkreptile@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: zigzag/amel corns
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:40:25 -0800

Well, I soaked them earlier, and one of them pooped out the nastiest looking poo I have ever seen. It was spinach-green with yellow liquid. The other one pooped out what looked like yellow marshmallows. I have photos-been asking around, and no one has seen anything like it yet.

Both of them are very skinny, the one zigzag was skinny when it got here, which is why I asked you previously if it was a runt. They have been kept just like my other corns, with a UTH on one end of their tank around 85 and the cool end at 75. These are the only two of my baby corns that are sick-all the others are healthy.

They are being kept in gladware containers on paper towel. Each has their own container, I do not keep baby snakes together-especially corn snakes.

I must admit, I am not too happy about these two being sick-and it all started ten days after they got here. Each took two meals, then began regurging on the 3rd and 4th meal and now neither will eat at all. One bites at the food, but immediately drops it. I've tried live and f/t.

What did you keep these two on? How about food items?

thanks,
Clara
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I am not sure exactly why you are telling my all this a couple month after the fact, There is nothing really I can do, all ate 5 meals for me and who knows how many meals while they were at East Bay Vivarium. After a few days if they acted like this then it would be my care that affected them but you did say that they ate for you after you got them from me. It must be something up at your place. I apoligize about being so blunt but it has been at least a month if not more. I hope everything gets better with them.



Thanks,
TKreptile
Krystle Treadwell
Tony Somohano
www.tkreptile.com
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I'm thinking this may have been something they had caught from EBV-or somewhere else. The one with the hourglass shapes died last night, with the same strange dark colored belly. The other one is still alive, but very skinny, and has refused live, f/t and anole scented pinky mice. I'm thinking since you say they both ate 5 meals for you, that these may have a disease that causes wasting-as they were both skinny when they arrived here, and should not have been if they had been eating well.

All my other baby corns are fine and healthy. None are showing any symptoms of this wasting disease so far-and all the babies I have here were either bred this year by myself, two came from VMS, two came from Mike Panichi, and two came from Serpenco stock. All 3 places I highly doubt would be carrying any diseases-and since the other babies have been here well over a month longer than the two I bought from you, I think something would have popped up by now.

I was just EBV about 3 weeks ago and saw no signs of illnesses in any of their reptiles. I'm sure that the guy I know working there would have mentioned something, as I bought an african house snake from them who is perfectly healthy, and looked at several corn snakes they had available-all looked very plump and active.

I'm really not sure how to feel about this, I am out $75 with these two and have tried everything I could.

-Clara
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First, The day she recieved the corns she emailed me telling me they both ate frozen thawed. The same day they were shipped! She emailed me thrilled about how they looked.

Second, I dont know what else I can do, I dont know the care the little corns have been given, I have only been told. I havent seen pics of corn that died.

As far as I know I have done everything in my power, I gave her advise on what could be wrong, and how to fix it. Thats is all I can do for her.

Clara, I am sorry but ask any one their refund/return policy.

Breeders/Herpers - Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks,
Krystle Treadwell
www.tkreptile.com