about siklback and their husbandry

I was merely making a point in regards to both Sherri and Michele experience in regards to their charge of inbreeding to create a morph when they simple don't have the facts. The comment I made was about Michele lacking the knowledge or shall I say being a newbie only six months ago and now she is stating what breeders do to prove out their morphs is wrong. The person has a total lack of knowledge when it comes to genetics.

Originally Posted by puppytoes72
EVERYTHING.its unnatural and wrong to inbreed for a "project" and the almighty dollar

Most every single morph project had to be lined-breed to be proven.

I'm really surprised that you would think I was addressing you.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Because I'm not stupid, Dennis. There's nobody else on this thread that knowingly had financial problems last year...or six months ago, whatever.

It really doesn't matter anymore, Dennis. None of this even matters anymore. I'll just slink back to my dying dragons now. Thanks for the fun.

I wasn't speaking of money..I was speaking of knowledge...

The post I was referring to

plz help,my new bd wont eat
i just got my 1st bd and it wont eat,i researched everything b4 i bought it so i think its environment is ok.i tried putting crickets in his home and i also tried feeding him in a seperate tank.its been 24 hours.any suggestions??

It was cheap, immature shoot back. After being called unethical in the other thread. I have never had my ethics questioned here before in regards to the treatment of my animals or myself, business and I'm still a little miffed about it.

I'm still amazed that you would assume I was talking about you.

And this is the point. Nowhere in all of the reptile industry is responsible line breeding a "question" to prove a morph. Every single ad in the snake forum. Every morph had to be proved to sell it as such.
__________________

Key word Responsable this is what all this is about !!!

Being responsiveable and having trust in what you are buying as a customer from a supposed Reptable Breeder.. !!!

That what they say is true and they are and have been responsiveable and honest

I also understand linebreeding and all BUT what I can not understand is the continued evasiveness and the direct bullcrap. Really

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

The post I was referring to



It was cheap, immature shoot back. After being called unethical in the other thread. I have never had my ethics questioned here before in regards to the treatment of my animals or myself, business and I'm still a little miffed about it.

I'm still amazed that you would assume I was talking about you.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

Originally Posted by walker75

And this is the point. Nowhere in all of the reptile industry is responsible line breeding a "question" to prove a morph. Every single ad in the snake forum. Every morph had to be proved to sell it as such.
__________________

Key word Responsable this is what all this is about !!!

Being responsiveable and having trust in what you are buying as a customer from a supposed Reptable Breeder.. !!!

That what they say is true and they are and have been responsiveable and honest

I also understand linebreeding and all BUT what I can not understand is the continued evasiveness and the direct bullcrap. Really

Yes, I understand what you are stating. But the argument that I have been making is from a general standpoint. Sherri and Michele are not making that direct argument about Vicki either. They have consistently stated all is wrong with the way any morph is proven out. I'm debating the point of line-breeding not who is doing it.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Yes, I understand what you are stating. But the argument that I have been making is from a general standpoint. Sherri and Michele are not making that direct argument about Vicki either. They have consistently stated all is wrong with the way any morph is proven out. I'm debating the point of line-breeding not who is doing it.

That is not what I've been trying to say....have you not seen this so called Bearded Dragon??? IT DOESN'T HAVE SCALES!!!! That would be like someone "line breeding" you and your sister so that your children can be born without skin. When have I ever brought up snakes or geckos? If I have, it was in a general statement. But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate. Period. Now if that makes me a person who doesn't belong in this thread, oh well, sucks to be you....you'll just have to ignore me.
While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you. Just because you have been breeding in this manner doesn't mean it is ok or ethical.
I may not have the experience in line breeding but I do have basic intelligence and you insinuating that I or Michele have nothing to bring to the table is wrong. You just don't like what we have to say. And Dennis, I have spoken to breeders that have said that this isn't how they would conduct business. Not every breeder believes in line breeding.....they're just a little smarter then me in coming here.

dennis,im really LMAO over here.because my beardie wouldnt eat when i first got her you say "i couldnt feed her 6 months ago"?is that the best you got?? and get it right,it was 9 months ago and btw....you dont have to be a genetics expert to know that breeding close relatives is INBREEDING your head is so far up your butt you cant even think before you speak.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I was merely making a point in regards to both Sherri and Michele experience in regards to their charge of inbreeding to create a morph when they simple don't have the facts. The comment I made was about Michele lacking the knowledge or shall I say being a newbie only six months ago and now she is stating what breeders do to prove out their morphs is wrong. The person has a total lack of knowledge when it comes to genetics.


Most every single morph project had to be lined-breed to be proven.

I'm really surprised that you would think I was addressing you.

I understood his comment completely, and did not see it as aimed at you, however hard one tries to make it seem that way. Dennis is nothing but Upstanding, and he does not just make remarks to make them without the facts.

I saw it as sarcasam at best, to a newbie owner trying to get their foot in on something they do not even fully understand. Assumptions dont fly well here at fauna, and ive learned my lesson at that. others should heed that advice

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

That is not what I've been trying to say....have you not seen this so called Bearded Dragon??? IT DOESN'T HAVE SCALES!!!! That would be like someone "line breeding" you and your sister so that your children can be born without skin. When have I ever brought up snakes or geckos? If I have, it was in a general statement. But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate. Period. Now if that makes me a person who doesn't belong in this thread, oh well, sucks to be you....you'll just have to ignore me.
While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you. Just because you have been breeding in this manner doesn't mean it is ok or ethical.
I may not have the experience in line breeding but I do have basic intelligence and you insinuating that I or Michele have nothing to bring to the table is wrong. You just don't like what we have to say. And Dennis, I have spoken to breeders that have said that this isn't how they would conduct business. Not every breeder believes in line breeding.....they're just a little smarter then me in coming here.

Theres nothing wrong with your stance on linebreeding. BUT, if linebreeding IS done correctly, again, as i think ive said this three times in this thread now, it can be safe, and offspring can be healthy, with NO problems. Inbreeding can happen naturally in the wild, and the dragons suffer no ill effects.
Now, that does not mean i say it is OK to do on a regular basis, or constantly to brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers, but to prove a morph, or trait out, i can see it as something that can be done. so long as you are 100% responsible about it. Again, another proven point, look at the caulker cays that are in existence DUE to the fact that rio Bravo, and other breeders now are taking care to Extend the genetic pool of these animals without ruining the species in captivity as a whole. it CAN be done.
Again, The dragon community knows next to nothing about these dragons, and now, the only people that can answer have been chased off, so now even more will be left at question, and assumptions made.


Lets stop with the mudslinging, and get to the facts people. ^_-