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Old 10-11-2004, 02:23 PM   #1
SpiralTailRanch
Emergency bearded help!

I have two young bearded dragons, both about 4" SVL that have symptoms I can best describe as a seizure. They will lay there with all their limbs either twitching or shaking, every now and then they will gag and try to throw up. I thought maybe they were impacted, but I don't understand the seizures. Can anyone help?
 
Old 10-11-2004, 09:03 PM   #2
MatthewM
Sounds like

Have you been dusting with calcium with d3, and providing UVB light? Sounds very similar to the symptoms they show when they are calcium deficient. If you have not been providing calcium w D3 and not providing a good UVB source for your beardie I recommend you do that quick. A good supplement would be Rep-Cal with vitamin d3 (pink label). I would also get a good UVB providing bulb if you do not have one like a Repti-Sun 5.0 fluorescent or a Powersun Mercury Vapor Bulb.

If you have not been using any supplements you need to dust the crickets once a day in the calcium powder for young growing beardies. To get it in the system fast I would buy some chicken or squash baby food, and mix a pinch or two of the calcium supplement into the baby food, and feed by syringe.

If you have been providing the calcium all along it may be impaction as symptoms are similar. Try the calcium, and try giving the beardie warm soaks to see if you can get a bowel movement. If tremors don't stop or get worse a vet will be needed. A vet can give a shot that would work right away if calcium is the problem, and will be able to help pass the impaction if that's the case.

Good Luck with your beardie!!
 
Old 10-15-2004, 10:48 PM   #3
beardeddraggylover
A bearded dragon will do as you have described when it is suffering from Calcium Defeciency. Obviously you must not be supplementing the calcium correctly, if at all. UVB bulb lights, are a must to have. They help your dragon to produce Vitamin D3 which is a must, for your Dragon to be able to use the calcium.

Without Calcium supplements, UVB lights, you get Metabolic Bone Disease which is cause from Calcium Defeciency. It can be reversed, but only if it is treated quickly. Shaking, twitching, and 'seizures' as you described are the first stages of Metabolic Bone Disease.

Please take your Dragons to the vet, they will love you for it. They need help, and they need it now. Also, look in to getting Rep-Cal Calcium D3, Phosphorus free as a supplement to dust the crickets DAILY with.... If you don't already have it.

Amanda Kathleen Stuparyk.
 
Old 10-15-2004, 10:54 PM   #4
beardeddraggylover
Also, incase of impaction, (Which I doubt as this case has pretty much Metalbolic Bone Disease written all over it) an impacted Dragon can be given a very small amount of Olive Oil to help ease the impaction. I recommend only a few drop's worth. But make sure you have informed a vet about it.

Please know, that with impaction the back hind legs usually become fully paralyzed. If the impacted object is passed quickly enough, your dragon may be able to fully recover. Sometimes, the back legs may be paralyzed for the rest of your Dragon's life... But the dragon can still live like that, (ONLY if it is healthy, and well cared for.)

Also, what're you using for substrate in your Bearded Dragon's home? How old are your dragons? Do you house them together?

Amanda Kathleen Stuparyk.
 
Old 10-16-2004, 12:51 PM   #5
lovemyinknsteel
Are these babies still having trouble? Where did you get these babies? What supplements are being used and how often? How often are you misting or bathing? What UVB is being provided? What is the basking temp/cool temp, and how are you testing it?

Since I don't know your baby's ages, I'm assuming that they are fairly young. MBD doesn't usually get that severe that quickly, and it sounds to me like either a major impaction issue, dehydration, or a virus.
 
Old 10-16-2004, 01:08 PM   #6
beardeddraggylover
Wrong. MVB can, and WILL happen in young Bearded Dragons if they are not properly cared for.
 
Old 10-16-2004, 01:22 PM   #7
lovemyinknsteel
Do you actually know how old these are? I work in reptile rescue and have primarily worked with beardies for 5 years now. Out of the babies we've had come in, most of them have gone at least 3 mos before showing symptoms of MBD whatsoever. That was with nothing but mealworms for food, no supplements, and no UVB whatsoever. The first symptoms that were obvious were the lack of growth, and impaction, which also turned out to be due to too low of temperatures. I'm sure it does happen to some really young dragons earlier, but I've never seen or even heard about a dragon under 3 mos going into seizures from MBD. The symptoms sound suspiciously like impaction (the way the mouth is gaping like they are trying to throw up???), seizures are easily caused by dehydration, and then you've got adeno and corona to address which can have all of those symptoms plus some. CheriS asked me to post about this because she is concerned about an adeno outbreak.....

I know firsthand what each of these issues are like so I'm not spouting off some crap I "heard"..... these are actual experiences. No need to be rude to me.....
 
Old 10-16-2004, 01:27 PM   #8
MatthewM
Sure

Sure MBD can happen very quickly to young growing dragons not recieving proper supplementation and lighting. The twitching of the toes legs is the first sign of this. It happens all to often, and these symptom fit hand in hand with this being the case.. If it's not corrected it gets worse..

sure it could be something else but 80% of the time with someone describing the twitching of the toes/legs it's a calcium problem.. I'm sure cheri knows this.. Don't think anyone was trying to be rude to you.. Thanks for posting for her.. where is she anyway?? Been trying to get in touch with her for days..

The person who started the thread has not responded yet, and It's been a few days now. I hope the problem was corrected and the dragons are doing better..
 
Old 10-16-2004, 01:37 PM   #9
lovemyinknsteel
We thought toe-twitching was a sure calcium deficiency too with the babies I had... Cheri worked with me extensively to save them. Had I not been caring for them since hatching, I would have also guessed this immediately..... however... impaction starts this way too (another group of babies I've worked with) so I'm not so inclined to jump at MBD anymore until I see the rest of the info.....calcium added to an impacted or dehydrated lizard can compound problems if not used with plenty of fluids and proper temps.... better safe than sorry.

I posted to this person PM as well, and I did recommend to address calcium deficiency AND dehydration AND impaction as none of the solutions (gatorade diluted chicken babyfood w/ calcium d3 by dropper several times a day, warm baths, and mistings) will hurt, and can only help. But I'm trying to gather info to find out if these babies are adeno babies like Cheri suggested. I see that there has been no response, and I too hope that they are ok..... the symptoms were quite severe tho regardless of what affliction they were suffering with.... I watched my first dragon die just like that and it was cancer....

Anyway Cheri is unable to get to her email and computer.... she has PM if you need to reach her but only when she gets to a computer, so I've just been leaving those....
 
Old 10-16-2004, 09:29 PM   #10
SpiralTailRanch
Sorry, I missed everyones posts. I havn't been on in a few days.

I got these dragons only about two weeks ago. Yes, I have had a UVB light on them and I have been dusting with calcium. I did know that was required in the care for bearded dragons.

The two dragons have actually fully recovered. The day that I posted, someone reccomended a warm bath. I'm not sure how, but that did the trick. I gave them both three baths that day in warm water. Took them out when the water cooled. They havn't had any further symptoms since that day.

These dragons came from a guy named Ryan in California. There is a concern about cancer?

Thank you everyone for your help and concern.
 

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