Wise's rights?

Originally Posted by brd7666

I have been attacked several times in threads myself, but that is not going to run me off. If you let what others say run you off then that is up to you. If you chose to be silent, the one silencing you, is you yourself and no one else.

Brian,

No one is "running" me off the site. I am making a choice that I feel is best for me. I pulled out of the moderator position simply because I no longer feel that I can actively contribute in a positive light. I used to pride myself on being unbiased and keeping a level head through everything I had to say. Unfortunately, I dont feel that way anymore.

When you feel like all you can do is lurk, what is the point. At least when YOU say something, you dont get perpetuated into siding with people who obviously scammed people, including myself. I will ONLY involve myself in threads that directly involve me. It they do not involve me, I will no longer make a comment. If you consider that "running" that I feel I have just fueled your fire even moreso for you to consider me even more involved.

Ok so let me get this right, a few people HERE (one of which I don't like) think that DEAN of all people is involved in the W's scam?

Where did that silly crap come from, when, and how?

LOL.. Good lord what next?

Dean you are so naughty, you just can't stay out of trouble can you, you evil little ?!

Anyway won't no one convince me of that crap!

You know, a member can't ban anyone from anything. Takes a Mod to do that. And I'll bet that if a Mod banned, booted, or otherwise made someone leave chat...It's because they were being a disruption or broke the rules in some way.

That being said, ain't nobody to blame for a ban but yourselves. Take your lumps like the man, woman or little girl that you choose to be, and move on.

As for the "private" chat goes...uh, ALL of us have tried to deal with this in private at one point or another. Some of us have more patience and keep trying, some of us told them to take it to the BOI once we started feeling the warmness of the bullshit slowly climbing up our legs.

The only real concern here should be if there was anything relevant to add to the case. If there was, I'm sure that the Mods that were present are honest enough that they would disclose this info in the thread were the info should be.

My 2¢
Rick

Originally Posted by DaveyFig

I don't believe the chat was used to set up any kind of payment plan, or make arrangements for turning over a new leaf. When I asked for the cliff notes version when I got to the chat, I was told that Christina was saying that Dean was in on the scame from the very beginning, and Christina was sending proof to those who were supposed to be there (not those of us who guesses the password and shared it with everyone else). I was banned shortly after that. I want to know if Christina had anything to say for herself, or if she only pointed at Dean (not that I think she should have had the opportunity to say anything while I was banned).

I think that if one is a student of human nature, one will realize that keeping a lid on any information that has been already shared once is difficult.

The parties to the chat may not be saying much now because they (rightfully) may want to check the veracity of what they heard. No one of us would simply parrot info fed to us by those who are under a cloud of suspicion to begin with, none of us would simply for instance repeat anything the Wises said without critically looking at the info.


I am confident that sooner or later some kind of information will be forthcoming. The whole concept of the BOI is based on allowing people to see and judge for themselves.

And, human nature again, I believe that if Christina said something in one place, she will repeat it elsewhere.

Here are some things to consider. This "select few" that will be looking into the accusations need to keep in mind, when reviewing the evidence submitted by the Wise's, that these two previously submitted "evidence" that the money was sent to Maggie before it was determined to be falsified. I advise them to tread very carefully, and question whether some of those "few" are even qualified to be in that position.

Also, you are talking about two people who have ran other scams other than with the auctions. They appear to be the type that sit around looking for ways to get "free money". I would not be surprised if they just sit around waiting for ways to derail the efforts of the BOI and just screw with people. One way to accomplish this would be to just read the thread, identify the conflicts between members, and feed on those conflicts by starting conspiracy theories....specifically voiced to those they knew would listen and suspect it to be plausible.

So who were booted from the chat room at Christina's request? Those who were starting trouble, or those who the Wise's knew they wouldn't sway? Just saying.

Okay, here's the deal....well, my explanation for MY actions, anyway.

I came into chat, and there was a password protected room with a number of people. The password had been figured out, and given to the main chat (by the person that figured it out, not the room owner). When went in to see what was going on - I noticed that Christina Wise was present...but not talking. The room owner, Deborah, was trying to deal with conflicts with a couple other members & attempting to communicate with Christina. After observing for a short time, and exchanging a few private messages with Deborah about what was going on, I intervened - by that, I mean I stated that anybody not specifically invited to the room by Deborah should leave...and, if they chose not to leave of their own accord, I would remove them. (Deborah had kicked a couple people out, but they simply returned). At that time, Deborah stated that she wanted everybody except Brian and me to leave - the majority of the onlookers went back to the main chat...the last few got some help.

Davey - you were the one that broadcast the password to everybody. Maybe it was all in fun, or maybe you felt everybody had a right to be there; but that wasn't what Deborah wanted. She set up the room, and password protected it, because she wanted to continue her conversation without the disruptions of everybody throwing in their comments. When she said she wanted everybody gone, you stayed. I removed you. Then you came back - that was your mistake, and the reason you were banned from that room. That might have worked with Deborah, but did you really think I was going to tolerate it? Now, you can play the victim if you want, but you were still in the other chat (separate windows, DaveyFigXXXX) for some time...I know that for a fact because, after I banned you from Deborah's room, I went back to the main chat and looked. Maybe you got booted for inactivity, the system kicked you for some other reason, or you simply closed the window - but, once you were gone, you couldn't get back until the ban expired a couple hours later.

Now, for everybody that is upset that Christina was allowed to have a private conversation with somebody:
My decision was not based on her identity. I didn't remove people for her benefit. Any member that utilizes the chat room has the option of setting up a private room. I intervened because Deborah's room was violated & people were not accepting her direction - at that point, SHE was the administrator, so what she said was the rule.
When I came into the room, Christina was silent (not because I came, she just wasn't talking)....the participants were emailing each other. Maybe it was coincidence, but as soon as the room was cleared, Christina started talking again. From that point on, I looked in occasionally - but my participation was limited to a few private comments to Deborah (well, I did remove one or two more people that saw fit to let themselves in, since they weren't invited by Deborah)

What I saw was pretty much what one would have expected, and what has been related - denials, accusations, etc. No "proof" of anything was offered, unless it was sent directly to Deborah - which, I believe, is a big part of WHY Deborah and Brian aren't revealing it. There is no reason for them to play mouthpiece for Christina, or to support her stories...but, if the lines of communication stay open, maybe some good will come of it. Personally, I doubt it - I know others have tried.

Originally Posted by bsharrah

So who were booted from the chat room at Christina's request? Those who were starting trouble, or those who the Wise's knew they wouldn't sway? Just saying.

Nobody was booted at Christina's request (at least by me...I can't speak to what happened before I arrived) - I know I just explained that in my other post, but I figured it beared repeating.

Harald's explanation helps take some of the sting out of what happened...at least for me. He, as a mod of this site, was protecting DEB'S right as a member of this site to create a private chat room and do what she wanted with it.

So my thoughts are directed at Deb and Brian as the only two people who seem to know what actually went on in there.

There was a time when Ed Clark tried to use a private forum (the contributor's only forum) to slam someone he was having an active BOI issue with. Ed got slammed in return and his "private" posts were immediately made public on the BOI. And as bad as most of us believe Ed to be, he's nowhere near on the same plane as the Wises for pure evilness. Ed didn't get a pass to discuss ongoing BOI issues privately...I don't think the Wises should, either.

Maybe Deb and Brian thought they could actually work toward some sort of genuine resolution and restitution? Maybe they thought they could get the hangman's knot even tighter by giving Christina more rope to play with? Maybe they are working on the conspiracy that other trusted members are involved in this mess and want to get credit for exposing them? (Personally, I can't see the Wises being willing to share the money with anyone else....and I honestly can't imagine any other members, least of all, Dean Stemple, as being evil enough to steal from widows and children just so some slimy idiot can get his drug fix)

Deb and Brian...the longer you sit on this, the worse it will get. I guarantee you, people's imaginations will be worse than whatever it is Christina said or did in that chat. And their outrage at what they imagine took place will spill onto the two of you as it looks like you are trying to protect HER and/or cover up for her mistakes. IF she has falsely accused anyone, you're not protecting them by hiding that fact...you are only protecting her AND making yourselves look bad.

The last person on this planet that needs protection right now is Christina Wise.

This whole Wise saga is getting retarded.

They're winning, cause we're fighting.
WTF people, wake up.

Thank you Harald for clarifying what went down.

Now, for the beginng to dispel those "rumors" that it is a cover up, or that I, in some fashion, planned it this way...this is the part that Harald didn't witness:

In the beginning when Christina came in, she immediately pm'ed me and said she wanted to talk to me. I immediately pm'ed a couple of the guys in the chat room to alert them to what was going down.

The more logical immediately quieted down and waited for developments. While in the pm, I advised Christina to return the conversation to the general chat so that "she could have a record of what was said" (you can take the quoted statement anyway you like).

She returned to the general chat and I think that I again asked people to please be quiet and let her talk, and even asked one of the members to play "secretary" by saving the conversations. There was NO attempt to cover up anything. BUT human nature, lack of ethics, and general sneakiness will find a way to displace blame, won't it? What happened is what usually happens in the BOI...the ones that do not know how to think before they open their mouths started interrupting and trying to get their 15 minutes of fame. The conversation was fast going downhill as more and more people joined.

THIS is when I created a private room so that we could continue the conversation and while I initially did not invite all but the one that I KNEW had listening abilities (some people just want to hear themselves TALK), I did not kick anyone but the one CHRISW that kept inserting inane comments, and just would not stay out of a room in which he was NOT invited (so sue me). I initially hadn't invited any of the ones that used the password that DavyFig figured out and shared with people in the general chat..it was nice and certainly a revelation to learn how much respect people have for privacy and rules. Some of us would not have even dreamed of trying to figure out the password once someone went private, and we certainly wouldn't have been inserting ourselves where we were not invited regardless of whether or not we felt that we had the right to be there. and...for your information, I can talk to whomever I please.

There is no reason to put anything out here, except that the ones that wanted to further derail the BOI and keep flames burning decided to try and twist what happened for their own purposes. After the conversation with Christina was over..I returned to the main room...I had planned to tell them that nothing of import happened..I told everyone that nothing of import happened and to continue the course of legalities that had already been mapped out in the BOI....and we can see where THAT got me.

Everyone was certainly advised to leave the subject alone because it added nothing to the main goal, which was to get Maggie her money. I do not have time or inclination to play nursemaid to a lot of butt-hurt people that are just offended because they were booted from the room, or their name was mentioned, and Dean certainly isn't the focus of the BOI so why bring his name up? Why would any of you feel that it was important to alert Dean? Did you find any proof in her statments? What did you think would be accomplished by raising the subject? Has anything been accomplished but to derail the BOI thread and try and create another victim? Talking about "suing?" They have no money, what they said didn't go any further. Why jump defensive if you know that there's nothing behind the story? Those of us that listened didn't feel the need to repeat anything and I certainly am not going to be a "platform" for someone to play victim and disrail topics again and again.

BTW: Christina wasn't asking for ANYONE to be booted, I was booting people that didn't know how to STFU, so that we could listen and not have reams and reams of conversation and have to shift though all the worthless remarks that added NOTHING to the conversation.

*Rule of thumb about friends... Those who matter don't mind (if you be yourself) and those that mind, don't matter.


** If it's going to "look bad" for me because I don't want to repeat unsubstained stories..I guess it's just going to look bad for me.