Fauna Classifieds spam_insite

This is something i never thought i would be posting spam_but it seems spam_(more so now) spam_that spam_since the fiasco spam_with the whole snake pit spam_ordeal spam_that spam_ spam_reptile business has spam_dropped substantially spam_ spam_, i mean spam_due spam_to all this spam_my response for ads spam_ has dropped to nearly zero spam_.... And im not used to that spam_
usually im answering spam_least 10 emails a week ... im affraid that this situation spam_that spam_came about has left some seriously bad tastes spam_in peoples mouths spam_( which i can fully spam_understand to a point spam_) spam_about doing online business .. its hard to be trusting when u see spam_a highly known person spam_ spam_be questioned spam_as far as integrity spam_ spam_is concerned spam_.. myself have never spam_had a bad dealing spam_( knock on wood spam_) spam_as i try to maintian highest customer stisfaction spam_ spam_.... but these things do happen spam_..please people spam_i know trust is a big issue spam_ and a sensative issue at this time spam_but spam_try to remain open minded spam_ to the spam_facts spam_that everyone spam_is not spam_ out to get you spam_...
lets please bring some peace spam_and mind spam_back to the herping industry spam_... cause spam_ situations spam_such as these spam_only hurt the spam_people spam_that spam_try to bring people spam_and animals together spam_.. I myself spam_and a small spam_ , slightly spam_well known business spam_( spam_but mostly spam_my hobby) spam_ spam_ spam_and i know spam_these kinds of spam_problems hurt us the worst spam_ .... I'm spam_just asking spam_for people spam_not to close their minds spam_on everyone spam_ be weary of the ones that are needed spam_but spam_dont put us spam_all on the list spam_...Its spam_a SAD spam_day when spam_stuff like this spam_has happened spam_i hope the spam_day gets brighter spam_and we can go back to being spam_the happy spam_herping community spam_that i have known spam_and come to love about this board ..........
just a few thoughts spam_i spam_had ...

shawn skillings
TheVipersHouseReptiles&Exotics

Shawn,

I don't know if you were doing business online last year but it is not uncommon for there to be off seasons. As the weather improves people tend to unplug more and get out. I monitor traffic for about 75 of our clients sites (and have been for about 3 years) and we see this decrease in activity across the board this time of year. Graduations happen, wedding season is here, etc that all takes money away from luxury items which for those other normal people &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;reptiles are a luxury item.

Not to take away from what you posted but there may be other factors at work.

Shawn,

I too have noticed a alight decrease in the number of customers and e-mails lately , but I know it is just because of the season. &nbsp;It happens every year about this time. &nbsp;It will slow for about a month or so, and then go through the roof once again. &nbsp;Don't worry I don't believe it has anything to do with the discussions on the BOI.

Personally, I think that sales will get worse before they get better. Shipping has become a nightmare, whether its by plane or mail. The introducton of combating terrorism has made me think twice about shipping. Everything seems to be examined one way or another. You can forget trying to get past security at an airline with carry on luggage that contains some harmless reptiles. Those days are gone. The risk of confiscation is to costly. So what you are left with a attending more local shows or physically meeting someone to conduct business. People will and probably purchase more locally. It will be interesting to see what happens this year at Daytona where some vendors would carry their inventory on their napsack, and the purchaser is now faced with the problem of how to bypass all these security headaches to get his item home. It may also turn out to be a buyers market since alot of prices have fallen off sharply (at least in my end of the business...geckos) but only time will tell. I hate being a pessimist, but eventually alot of people are going to quit this business as their products become less attractive and they realize that as wonderful as the internet is , its also a harbor for attracting the wrong kind of people. JERRY TRESSER

well Daniel
i did put &nbsp;what u said &nbsp;into consideration &nbsp; when i was writting &nbsp;but you must admitt &nbsp; how many emails were u getting before &nbsp;the fiaso started &nbsp;?
i understand what u are saying dont get me wrong &nbsp; &nbsp;but &nbsp;i still have to think &nbsp;when a big namer gets &nbsp;put on the spot &nbsp;like whats going on &nbsp; and his morality &nbsp;has been questioned &nbsp; &nbsp;that tends &nbsp;to harbor more suspisions &nbsp;about the so called HONEST DEALER &nbsp; &nbsp;it stirs up more and more unhappy thoughts &nbsp;about internet &nbsp;dealings &nbsp; .. i TRULY hope your reason is the reason &nbsp; &nbsp; , &nbsp;cause i would hate to think &nbsp; my 2Cents &nbsp;was actually the case &nbsp;because if it &nbsp;were so &nbsp;then we are all gonna suffer &nbsp;alot more in the time to come
i dont argue 1 bit from the replies &nbsp; &nbsp;that are posted so far &nbsp; but in my end &nbsp;i saw &nbsp;the drop &nbsp;from good to lacked &nbsp;when the &nbsp;&*!# &nbsp;hit the fan &nbsp;in a certain post &nbsp; .... &nbsp;my mailbox got alot emptier &nbsp; &nbsp;than normal &nbsp;HOPE IM WRONG &nbsp;!!!!!!! &nbsp;
shawn

Shawn,

I am positive that there was some fallout. Look at your market and see who your customers are (or were before the thread started). If they are dealers/brokers/breeders/shops/ other bigger name collectors you may have hit on it (these are the people that frequent this site).

In the article in Reptiles Magazine this month the owner of Sandfire Ranch was stating he is seeing an increase of professionalism in the industry. That is a very good thing as I think the general public's perception of the reptile industry is that they are a bunch of "reptile nerds". You are 100% correct in that when a larger name in the business comes underfire it puts the industry a step back instead of improving the public image. I just know from looking at online traffic across a number of industries this is a normal slow time of year. That was why I asked if you had records of last years leads/sales. As Rob (see I spelled it right this time <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> ) said it is probably just normal seasonal ebb and flow.

Personally, I think that the Snake Pit thread has NOTHING to do with how online business has been lately. &nbsp;Jerry makes some good points, it is not as easy to ship as it was through most services(although UPS seems quite accomodating for my geckos), and forget trying to get your prize show buys through the airport anymore. &nbsp;And yes, it will probably get worse before it gets better. &nbsp;
I personally think there are more factors at work than just the season. &nbsp;Historically for ME, May, June, and July have been my best months doing business online. &nbsp;This year, I feel like I almost have to give away animals that I could have easily sold less than a year ago. &nbsp;But all year long it seems there has been a lull in the herp market(at least for geckos, and from what I see on ks and here, snakes as well)and for once, the supply seems to be far out weighing the demand in many species(this is the first year I have ever seen ETB's under $300 retail/online other than wholesale price sheets, and they aren't selling at all like they should). &nbsp;I have seen many of the same animals for sale on ks right now that have been on there for months. &nbsp;And not just super high dollar stuff either. &nbsp;Alot of the cheaper stuff is hanging around alot longer as well. &nbsp;
But oh well. &nbsp;We will all just have to roll with the punches. &nbsp;The herp market will survive and we will all be able to start making money again doing what we love, but we just need to be patient and wait out the drought. &nbsp;The rains WILL come again <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Wow!

What a topic, one that people never really ponder socially.
Which is a shame.

I dont know what to add here, Jerry Tresers post is genuis in my opinion and Rob from R.K.Reptiles post is great also. Here's my two cents, just my opinion, for what thats worth,I dont know.

&nbsp; With the summer months comeing and 911 wake up call to how life can change dramatically, people ARE more interested in social events , going places, expereinceng life, seeing relatives than buying THINGS. This includes reptiles I'm afraid.
I think as more people breed and broker reptiles , it becomes a buyers market. There are a finite number of customers and a plethra of vendors to choose from, which is great for the public, but can be hard on breeders.

&nbsp;Shipping? &nbsp;Shipping is a bit of a nightmare, especially Legal shipping via airlines. For most unless you are a known shipper with an account, house inspection, and business license, you cant ship with them. period. Others will accept you shipping but want a vet certificate affixed to the out side of the box which states that the animal has been examined an is healthy. And require shipping parameters that are next to ridiculous(Bag, wooden box, in a bag, in another box)
I think that shipping is really slowing down the trade, I am sure some will come on here with tales of great shipping experiences without a glitch, and I am glad for them, but thathasnt been my expereinces, at least with air cargo.

&nbsp; Lastly, I think that consumer confidence is eroded when big name breeders are rightfully accused of fraud or cheating or lieing. I try VERY hard to maintain good customer relations and so far have had an excellent record in doing so. But it only takes a few guys that take peoples money or cheat them to make folks gun shy of the masses of people that are working SO HARD to bring them captive bred herps at fair market prices. Its a shame really, the baby thrown out with the bathwater. I think that we all suffer when new customers get a bad tastes in their mouths because of an unscroupulous breeder or broker.

E mails? I get tons of them.some asking me questions about snakes, others asking me if they should buy from so -and- so
(name a breeder or broker) I am flattered that they would trust ME enough to ask me who is an honest person to deal with. 911 hasnt slowed down the emails, for sure, but it has decreased the number of them that are intending to purchase my snakes NOW versus in , say maybe 6 or 8 months.

&nbsp;I think people wil get out of the hobby, new people will come, I have no idea how it will turn out. The BIRD &nbsp;HOBBY was very much like this many years ago, I kept and bred a wide variety of birds then, the only reason i left that was because of my interest in reptiles and my kids allergy to bird dander.

My suggestion: Keep what you like and never, ever expect to make one red cent on it. And dont watch what other people buy, being influenced by others is a major pitfall, and one I have fallen into time and time again. When will i ever learn?

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;*Cheers, its Friday!*

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fred Albury
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Aztec Reptiles)

&nbsp; Specializing in Drymarchon,Pituophis, and Rare Boas

Here's another twist. In talking with clients (for my other business that is not herp related) I notice a difference between east coast and west coast at this time. Two clients exactly same industries but on opposite coasts and their businesses are seeing opposite numbers in leads/sales. Just curious how that plays into the herp industry as well. Experiences anyone?

Mr. Albury, thanks for the kind words about my posting. One other point to mention. Our parent company is the Drosophila Co , we are fruitfly suppliers and have been in business for 15 years. Aside from our mainstay customers &nbsp;whom have been with us for years, new people are becoming more difficult to comeby. Its not a reflection of bad business but a greater demand for local dealings. Live food dealers have had their difficulties as well. With the new irradiation machines through the post office and some of their prohibitions on live animals have also brought alot of headaches to this industry. The cricket business for example has more people attempting to sell than buy ! You would think that after all these years that these companies (ourselves included) who provide quality service would be enough to oversaturate the market. But people are attempting to corrupt every facet of this industry. Without mentioning names I went to a show where almost 15 cricket vendors were attempting to sell. I dont have a problem with fee enterprise, but I knew none of these food people, who are looking to capitalize on local markets. I think as restrictions increase the role of the local herp gatherings will increase as people are sick and tired of getting ripped off through the net, dealing with unknown entities, and loosing monies on a daily basis as this Board of Inquiry has shown. Under conditions that choke the life of an industry, only the strong will eventually survive, and hopefully the bad dooers will fall by the wayside. But time will tell. I think the upcoming Daytona show may enlighten some of my fears. But I think people in general if they are not local are going to be more concerned about how to get what they bought home, and that can mean a considerable loss of revenue. No one benefits, and in the end it becomes a buyers market. Prices get lowered and people get desperate. That is the fermentation of deepening problems in the horizion. JERRY TRESSER