Michael and Kim Nodine Inquiry

Has anyone had any deals with Michael and Kim Nodine, they are out of California. I am looking at a BP they have for sale but can't really find anything on them and would appreciate input from people who have dealt with them in the past.
Thanks in advance,
Ingrid

Well, I couldn't find anything either way so I ended up going thru with the transaction. Emails and phone calls went smoothly and she is being shipped for delivery tomorrow. My only concern is that they fed her yesterday. I will update this thread as soon as she arrives.

Well, she just arrived. No mites or any other visual problems, good tone and curious right out of the box. My main concerns are that she ate a medium rat on 8/6 and was shipped 8/7, also while the box was sturdy and styrofoam lined, it contained no cold packs. The temps here in Ohio have been in the mid 90's. So while she was represented correctly, she shipping/feeding issues would cause me to pause on recommending them.

Originally Posted by catawhat

Well, she just arrived. No mites or any other visual problems, good tone and curious right out of the box. My main concerns are that she ate a medium rat on 8/6 and was shipped 8/7, also while the box was sturdy and styrofoam lined, it contained no cold packs. The temps here in Ohio have been in the mid 90's. So while she was represented correctly, she shipping/feeding issues would cause me to pause on recommending them.

Fortunately the snake did well. I agree that shipping a day after feeding was probably not the best idea as she certainly could have regurgitated in the box. Was there no way that you could decline for a couple of days?

With the temperatures all over most of the US lately I agree that a cold pack should have been used. Most reptiles will handle being a bit cold for a night far better than being overheated.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Fortunately the snake did well. I agree that shipping a day after feeding was probably not the best idea as she certainly could have regurgitated in the box. Was there no way that you could decline for a couple of days?

With the temperatures all over most of the US lately I agree that a cold pack should have been used. Most reptiles will handle being a bit cold for a night far better than being overheated.

I did not find out they had fed her the day before until the shipped her and they emailed me to let me know the tracking number. Had I known she had just been fed, I would have requested to wait until the beginning of next week.

Here are the emails I have back and forth from them. I spoke to Michael on the phone first, then come the emails.


Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:38:10 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: catawhat75@yahoo.com
Ingrid,

Shipping by FedEx overnight 10:30am arrival is an additional $60 making the total for Lace $185. My wife and I also decided to add Copper, another normal female weighing in at 1275 grams and a 3rd female ball python (no name) weighing in at 1318 grams, into the "for sale" pile..... Are you interested in more than 1. Would you like pics of the other 2? Let us know and we'll talk tomorrow.

Thank you,

Michael

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male
Balls for sale
From: catawhat75@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, August 05, 2007 3:18 pm
To: thereptileden@thereptileden.com


Hi Mike,
I am emailing you about Lace. I live in 43229, just let me know how much shipping would be.
Thanks,
Ingrid Cawthorne

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:14:44 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: catawhat75@yahoo.com
Ingrid,

Did you get my last e-mail regarding shipping costs? Let me know if you want us to send her out today....

Thank you,

Michael

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:27:14 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Ingrid,

I just sent you a Paypal invoice to your e-mail address you are using here. Just reply to it and I should get it sometime tonight and then have my wife ship her tomorrow afternoon...thus arriving Wed morning by 10:30am by way of FedEx. Attached is the pic of her you requested. Any problems...just call or e-mail.

Thanks again,

Michael and Kim

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:53:04 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
You are totally welcome.....I will have Kim ship her out tomorrow afternoon and e-mail you when she gets back with the tracking#. Take good care of her....she is a little shy in her cage when you first pick her up, but she warms right up and becomes curious as they all do.....Let us know how she does along the way.

Thanks,

Michael and Kim

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male
Balls for sale
From: Catawhat <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, August 06, 2007 2:46 pm
To: thereptileden@thereptileden.com


I just sent payment, thanks again for everything.
Ingrid

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:05:31 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Hello Ingrid,

She prefers live but you can change her over to frozen I am sure as long as they are nice and warm.

I will contact you via email as soon as I ship her out.

Thank you,

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male
Balls for sale
From: Catawhat <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, August 06, 2007 4:24 pm
To: thereptileden@thereptileden.com


She is going to be a keeper thats for sure, I just love her pattern, hopefully it will pass along. I have several who are cage shy but do great once out so she will fit right in, lol. I forgot to ask, what is her feeding preference- live, F/T?
Anxiously awaiting Wed morning
Ingrid


Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:08:03 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Hello Ingrid,

She is on her way..

Here's the tracking number 862450973223

Please let us know when she arrives. She did just eat yesterday so she shouldn't need to eat again for at least a few days.

Thank you,

Kim Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim


Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:18:45 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Ingrid,

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear you like her. Let us know how she is doing from time to time.

Thanks for your business,

Michael and Kim

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales
www.thereptileden.com
(916)257-2111 - Kim
(916)257-2129 - Michael




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male
Balls for sale
From: Catawhat <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, August 08, 2007 7:23 am
To: thereptileden@thereptileden.com


Hi Michael and Kim,
I wanted to let you know she arrive here safe and sound about 10AM my time. She looks great, very happy with her. My only concerns are that she was fed the day before shipping and that no cold packs were used. Temps here have been in the mid 90's so I was worried that I would open the box to a regurge rat/sick snake. However, she made the trip fine thankfully. I look forward to having her as a part of the family, my boyfriends daughter says it is her favorite snake other than her own personal

Ingrid


Well, I never did ask when she last ate and that is my mistake. However, I NEVER in a million years would ship the day after feeding so it never occured to me that she was just fed.
Again, she seems to be in good health, though a vet visit is in order. They were prompt in answering emails, though said nothing in the last email about my concerns. So I am still at a point to where I would be very hesitant in recommending unless they change these two issues.

That was supposed to sound like the Twighlight Zone...........A few days ago Aug 6 Michael Nodine contacted me about a Kingsnake ad for a 1850g Ball Python.female. He called.....I took fresh pics of her eatting...FTLgRat...Aug 6
Yesterday he Ordered her Via my Website. Today....2 days after feeding
she still hasn't wasted.......Wouldn't send without a cold pak.....I'm in Tx...
But I am concerned about the meal? I am a fan of Early A.M.(UPS) Micheal
wants his snake shipped today?.....Later

Well I guess I upset them by posting the emails online with their private info. I stand by my hestitation at this time. I do not think they are bad sellers/people and would not list them as so, just in my case I would ask alot more questions before I would by from them again.
Newest email without the "private info" that is available if you go to their website.

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:29:18 -0700
From: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Ingrid,

I was just made aware of your post on Fauna Classifieds by another fellow herper. I do commend you for trying to find some info on us prior to making a purchase from us, as that is something we wish we would have done in the past before making purchases from people we didn't know. On the other hand, I do not feel that you posting emails on Fauna that have gone back and forth between us was appropriate. What is said in emails is between the 2 people they are to or from. I feel that this is very unprofessional and degrading. All of our personal information is in those emails. If you had an issue about how things were handled between us, there are phone numbers in every single email that you have received and you could have called and dealt with us directly in a more professional manner. We did feed the morning of 8/6/07, but we did not have a reply back from you that you were definately taking her until that afternoon. It could have been another week or 2 before she was shipped out for all we knew and we fed her along with all the others. As for a cold pack. Yes, we should have added a cold pack, but if you were concernd about temperature at your location, then why didn't you ask us to hold off on shipping her until the temperature was cooler as other people that we are shipping snakes out to in the next week have done. You know your weather better than we do and if you had any concerns you should have made other arrangements with us, we would have been more than happy to wait on shipping her until it was a better temperature for her.

I feel that you have been very unprofessional in how you handled this situation. Saying that you "would be very hesitant in recommending unless they change these two issues", on a public website is absolutely not necessary. If you had received a snake that was malnutritioned, diseased, full of mites, or dead would definately call for this kind of action.

We have lots of refrences of people that we have shipped reptiles to over the past several years that have not had a single problem as well as lots of people who have shipped reptiles to us with no problems. Many of the snakes have come to us with a full stomach from these people including Greg Graziani and there has never been a single problem.

I suggest in the future that if you have an issue with a fellow herper/breeder that you contact them directly rather than slander their names online. If you have a question about how someone you have purchased something from has handled things and need advice from others online, you should leave their personal information out of the posts as I am sure you would want the same done for you.

If you have any further questions or issues please call us at the numbers below.

Thank you,

Kim and Michael Nodine
The Reptile Den
Education and Sales

and my response:
Wed, 8 Aug 2007 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Catawhat" <catawhat75@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Message about: 3 Normal Females and 1 100% Het Albino Male Balls for sale
To: thereptileden@thereptileden.com
I understand that I did not get back to you until I got home, however you knew I was interested and was waiting on info from you about her. If I had known she had been fed, I would have asked to wait. As for the cold packs, that is pretty much a given this time of year here no matter where you are shipping. I did not put anything on the BOI other than the facts, I did not spin anything and any info that is on the emails is info people can get about you on the web. Emails with headers are asked for on the BOI all the time. I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I did email you last night about my concerns and the message I recieved back was "Thanks for the update, glad you like her" not a thing about the concerns. I did not blast you on the BOI, please feel free to come tell your side. I stand by my hesitation at this point.
Ingrid

We are writing this in response to the above statements made about how we handled shipping a female ball python to a fellow herper/breeder. It has been suggested by this person that we did not properly ship this female snake. She states that a cold pack should have been used due to warm temperatures at her location and that we shipped her too soon after feeding.

We would like to clear this up by saying that we have been in business now for 6 years and have shipped hundreds of reptiles to many locations throughout the US. To date we have had no problems with any of these reptiles that have been shipped. In this situation, our customer stated that we should have used a cold pack when shipping to her location, stating that the temperatures there were in the mid 90's. We disagree with that statement as this snake was dropped off at our shipping center at 4:30pm to be sent out priority overnight from our location. At the time of drop off the temperature was approx 84 degrees and was received at the destination at 10:30am the NEXT DAY. Therefore we concluded, prior to shipping, that there was no need for a cold pack. She did all of her traveling during the coolest hours of the day/night.

In regards to shipping this snake too soon after feeding... We have never had any problems shipping or receiving a reptile on a full or empty belly. We have received reptiles from many different breeders with only one problem. The snake that we received from another breeder was fed that morning and shipped out that night causing her to regurgitate her food. Otherwise this has never been a problem for us. If this was as serious of an issue as this buyer has made it to be, then there are lots of breeders like us out there that are doing it wrong and have been doing so for a very long time.

In conclusion, we are most disturbed by the statement this customer has made that she would not recommend our business to others unless we corrected these 2 issues. Since we do not feel there are issues to "correct" we will continue to ship as we always successfully have. As you have already read above, this snake arrived to the customer in perfect condition, no regurge. and healthy. What more can we say.

Thank you,

Kim and Michael

I can say that it was lucky that she did not regurge. You have also stated in previous emails that you should have used a cold pack. Again, I stand by what I say and I will most certainly ask in the future to make sure shipping is done to my standards, I am not willing to risk the snakes health. That may be how you ship and I am thrilled you have had no problems in the past. I did not state you were bad people, just that I was unhappy with shipping. We will just have to agree to disagree. Anything further is just beating a dead horse as we do not/will not see eye to eye.

Originally Posted by mikdundee

In this situation, our customer stated that we should have used a cold pack when shipping to her location, stating that the temperatures there were in the mid 90's. We disagree with that statement as this snake was dropped off at our shipping center at 4:30pm to be sent out priority overnight from our location. At the time of drop off the temperature was approx 84 degrees and was received at the destination at 10:30am the NEXT DAY. Therefore we concluded, prior to shipping, that there was no need for a cold pack. She did all of her traveling during the coolest hours of the day/night.

Why risk it? There is always a chance that the carrier errs and the snake sits on a hot truck all day. Or worse, the package misses its flight and is in a hot airport all day. A cold pack is cheap insurance against a cooked snake.

Originally Posted by mikdundee

]In regards to shipping this snake too soon after feeding... We have never had any problems shipping or receiving a reptile on a full or empty belly. We have received reptiles from many different breeders with only one problem. The snake that we received from another breeder was fed that morning and shipped out that night causing her to regurgitate her food. Otherwise this has never been a problem for us. If this was as serious of an issue as this buyer has made it to be, then there are lots of breeders like us out there that are doing it wrong and have been doing so for a very long time.

Again, why take the risk? Why not wait a day or two? I honestly doubt there are many professional breeders who ship a day after feeding.