Need opinions on a bad deal with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest!!!

Too bad he doesn't live in my city. He wouldn't be laughing too much after I came knocking on his door, slapped the cuffs on, and hauled his sorry butt to the County Jail.

One word Tim...Fraud

Your terms of service mean nothing when you KNOWINGLY mis-represent what you are selling. Matt has already presented enough evidence for a prima facia case of fraud. After the Vet reports and necropsy come back, you are toast. I would settle this civily before the police get involved and its too late.

Matt, contact the police departments where you live and where Tim lives and file reports with both. The amount of money involved in this should make it a pretty stiff felony. And don't let them say "we'll get back to you." After a couple of weeks, call them back and ask for a progress report. Do this every week until it is resolved. Squeeky wheels always get the attention.

I have personally seen Tim's collection and I am sure that anyone that has seen it as well can vouch for the time taken for each snake at the high level of care given to all in his collection. I opened up each of his cages (with his permission to take pictures and look at snakes I could not yet afford!) and saw all strong and healthy snakes. I find this very odd to be coming from Tim and I am not going to do the bandwagon effect that happens to almost every thread on this board (just read the threads... they almost always favor the person recieving the snake).

I see nothing wrong with having someone listen in on phone deals. I personally would never do an oral aggreement without a witness present and I do not know many good businessmen that would do one either.

I would like to see a scanned in copy of the vet records.

To me, this sound exteremely odd, as many of you have know Tim for quite some time now from this boards and shows, this is not in his character. After Tim's dealings with Joe, he has shown to take great pride in the health and happiness of his arboreals (I'll admit it.. my enclosures aren't even a portion as nice as Tim's.. but I am working on that!!).. and an even greater pride in helping consumers buy from quality breeders.

Scott,
Everything you say about Tim's care for his collection was my impression too. That's why this whole thing is so shocking to all of us!! It seems very bizarre to me that this could ever happen!! Why is Tim so tacet about the whole thing? Did he feel that Matt screwed him on a previous deal and is taking this opportunity to get revenge?

I recall Tim thanking Matt on more than one occasion for fronting him some really great animals. What has happened here?
John Hedger

Hey Hedge,

Yes Matt, I guess he has swiped some of his money back for the high end snakes that you gratiously and patiently gave him months to pay off !!

Yeah like the last one I sold him that ended up costing me $2,000.00 and he paid me...$1,300.00 out of the $2,000.00 I charged him. The female NL cost me $2,500.00 which is exactly what I charged him, so I had to fork up $1,200.00 for the NL female. Sent by wire Transfer to boot. (Wire Fraud?)

Anyway Scott...I am not talking about the rest of Tim's collection here...just one and sometimes two snakes. I am sure the resy of his collection is stellar but these weren't, especially the NL female.

I see nothing wrong with having someone listen in on phone deals. I personally would never do an oral aggreement without a witness present and I do not know many good businessmen that would do one either.

With a friend? C'mon

Why is Tim so tacet about the whole thing? Did he feel that Matt screwed him on a previous deal and is taking this opportunity to get revenge?

Maybe it had to do with the 'Basin' that arrived with 'resp'. I immediately returned it and it still has it. Maybe that ticked him off who knows.

Originally posted by Ghi Reptiles

With a friend? C'mon [/b]

With anyone! its a level of accountability for both parties.

Hey Scott,

I'm sorry you feel that business has to be done that way . Unfortunately for me I have always trusted others. Maybe that's my downfall in todays society.

Not taking sides on this deal, but only responding to the "accountability" issue, I think someones word is a way of being accountable. Unfortunately people like to think otherwise and change stories.
So Scott, are you saying that you do not make ANY deals over the phone OR the web (email) without someone listening in or reading each and every post? I suppose there is nothing wrong with it, it does cover you a$$, but how sad it is to even THINK that you would have to do such a thing.
I can understand having all the facts and arrangements/agreements done via email so you have "record", but what you are saying is a lttle extreme. Like I said, if you are covering your tail, that is all that matters I suppose. I personally have never had to go to such lengths to make a deal on the selling end OR the buying end.

I am not going to do the bandwagon effect that happens to almost every thread on this board (just read the threads... they almost always favor the person recieving the snake).

Actually they usually favor the side of the person that has presented overwhelming evidence in their favor. In this case, that would be Matt. Tim is fully aware of this thread but is unable or unwilling to respond to any of the questions that have been asked of him.
Of course, he doesn't have to answer any questions asked of him on this board and since he's most likely going to end up in court it might be wise for him to keep his mouth shut. Still, he shouldn't be suprised when he can't give his emeralds away after pulling some crap like this.

Chris,
You bring up a good point. Like I stated before, I have bought (well traded) from Tim in the past. The ETB were exactly what I was told they would be, healthy, slert, good body weight, good length, etc. The day before I read this post, I would have referred anyone to him. I just feel so torn because MY dealings were perfect, but it is quite apparent that this deal is the true definition of imperfect!
Does not mean he is not a good guy to talk to, email with, and things like that. On the other hand, there would not be a chance of me buying from him again.......he would have to come here and explain to EVERYONE what he knows, in detail, whether he might feel it to be relevant in his eyes to the deal or not. Unfortunately, even then, I am not so sure I would give up my hard raised animals or hard earned cash with him again.
This is the most unbelievable thread I have read on the BOI in 3 years. You see alot of trash talking, alot of mud slinging, and alot of egos, but here you do not get that high tension feeling. You just read disappointing, sad, unbelievable, unimaginative, heartbreaking facts.
Just my opinion.