Right or Wrong? Good or Bad?

I AM NOT SLINGING MUD!
With that said, San Diego Vivarium were the ones that sold the boas....IF am not mistaken, did he not post on the boa forum stating this and that his collection was fine.  I say this ONLY because that was what I read a few weeks ago.
Brian

Let me ad that if I was able to go back and re-read the post I originally read on the boa forum, I would.  We know that it is no longer there since every so often Jeff erases the older posts as new ones come.  My point is, I would do it to confirm the name.
Brian

Did I miss something somewhere? It was mentioned that these were purchased as needing help animals from reading the post from Bill to Chris it didn't mention that but mentioned they possibly breed in 2002 heres the mail im talking about from post

Ok....here you go emails from him....does this sound like I was buying  "as-is"  snakes. Besides who would buy a "as-is" snake

HEY CHRIS, YES THEY ARE UNRELATED AND COULD POSSIBLY BREED IN 2002. I WOULD
WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR JUST TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PLENTY BIG. I NEVER RUSH MY
BOAS. IF THEY ARE TOO SMALL, THEY WILL PRODUCE VERY SMALL CLUTCHES. IT IS
ALWAYS BETTER TO WAIT AND GET A LARGER CLUTCH. IT ALSO PUTS LESS STRESS ON
THE FEMALE WHEN SHE HAS GOOD SIZE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU DECIDE ASAP. I
HAVE SOMEONE ELSE INTERESTED.

THANKS, BILL


YES THEY ARE BOTH TAME. I'VE HAD THEM FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

THANKS, BILL


HEY CHRIS, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. I WILL DO $420, BUT PLEASE DO NOT TELL
ANYONE YOU GOT THEM THIS CHEAP. I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP MY PRICES AS HIGH AS
POSSIBLE. I SELL LOTS OF BOAS BUT STILL LIKE TO MAKE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ON
EVERY SELL. I'M SURE YOU UNDERSTAND.

THANKS, BILL


HEY CHRIS, IT'S PROBABLY JUST WATER. SOMETIMES AFTER SHIPPING, THEY WILL
REGURGE WATER. I DIDN'T FEED HER, SO SHE DOES NOT HAVE A MEAL IN HER. GIVE
HER A FEW DAYS AND I AM SURE SHE WILL BE FINE.

THANKS AGAIN, BILL

I WOULD GIVE THEM A FEW MORE DAYS TO SETTLE IN AND THEN FEED THEM. I WAS
FEEDING BOTH F/T MEDIUM RATS.

THANKS, BILL

HEY CHRIS, I'M SORRY TO HEAR SHE IS NOT DOING ANY BETTER. I HAVE ANOTHER
ANIMAL THAT I GOT FROM DALE PICOLA THAT IS PASSING ALOT OF YELLOW FLUID. I'M
NOT SURE WHY THEY ARE DOING THIS, BUT I HAVE MINE ISOLATED FROM THE OTHERS
AND I WOULD SUGGEST YOU DO THE SAME. IF SHE IS NOT BETTER IN A FEW WEEKS I
WILL SEND YOU ONE OF MY PERSONAL ANIMALS. SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SUCH BAD LUCK
WITH HER. I THOUGHT SHE WAS OK OR I WOULD NOT HAVE SENT HER TO YOU. PLEASE
LET ME KNOW HOW SHE DOES.

THANKS, BILL

HEY CHRIS, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. I WILL SHIP YOU ONE OF MY FEMALES ON
THURSDAY FOR FRIDAY MORNING DELIVERY. SHE IS A VERY NICE ONE AND I THINK YOU
WILL BE VERY HAPPY WITH HER. I AM SORRY ABOUT THE OTHER ONE. I SHOULD HAVE
KEPT HER LONGER AND MADE 100% SURE SHE WAS OK BEFORE SELLING. I HAVE BEEN
TRYING TO GET HOLD OF DALE PICOLA (SAN DIEGO VIVARIUM) BUT HE IS AVOIDING MY
CALLS. HE IS REAL PIECE OF WORK! I WILL NOT BE BUYING ANYMORE ANIMALS FROM
HIM NEEDLESS TO SAY. WELL ANYWAY, PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN SHE ARRIVES ON
FRIDAY. IF YOU AND YOUR VET CAN NURSE THE OTHER FEMALE BACK TO HEALTH, JUST
GO AHEAD AND KEEP HER TOO. I WOULD KEEP HER ISOLATED FROM THE OTHERS THOUGH.

THANKS, BILL
If I missed something other someone please let me know.
Chris Pearson

Here is what I've taken from this whole ordeal.

#1 The BOI selectively chooses to enforce its own rules and regulations for reasons unknown ?

#2 This type of format does NOT work as a suitable method of letting people know what has ocurred simply because everyone with an internet connection can just post anything they want on her instead of stating facts and figures in regards to what has ocurred.  This whole IBD situation is the perfect example, only a handful of people where directly involved and there are approx. 40 different people posting about this situation !!!!!

#3 Is it true that well known breeders have more people willing to come to their defense than newbies...of course, come on if you sell 5 snakes a year and have one bad deal you only have 4 people to back you, if you sell 5,000 snakes a year and have 1 bad deal you have 4,999 people to back you !!!!!

#4 Was this deal financially made good by Bill Cagle !! In mine and MANY others opinion it was made good above and beyond.

#5 Does Chris have the right to continue creating new posts about this situation.  NO !  He has made his post and according to the rules and regulations he AGREED to abide by when he signed up for his account he does NOT have the right to continue to make new posts unless it is about a different breeder or situation.

#6 No matter how many times you report that someone is posting with complete disregard for the rules and regulations even after repeatedly being told they are doing so, the moderator won't do anything about it !!!!

Will I be banned from posting now, probably but you know what !  This forum has honestly become a joke and I'm very sad to say that it has become so as it WAS a very useful tool in the industry when it first started.  I hope the board will again become a useful tool as it is helpful for people new to the hobby looking to purchase animals.

Tony Basica
aka Tony Basica's Weirdsnakes

If its not being too nosy ....... why was Bill Cagle banned from posting ?


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles


Hope I am not stepping on the webslaves toes here .....

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Brian Oakley @ Mar. 15 2002,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I AM NOT SLINGING MUD!
With that said, San Diego Vivarium were the ones that sold the boas....IF am not mistaken, did he not post on the boa forum stating this and that his collection was fine. spam_I say this ONLY because that was what I read a few weeks ago.
Brian</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I am new to this forum, and I have been reading about the IBD thing that's going on here, so I have a couple of questions? spam_If there is a possibility that this disease may lye Dormant, which is what I have read. I wonder how many people don't already have it sitting in their collection and don't even know it? I was looking at the classifieds on boas and here is a picture of a snake I saw for sale, by (San Diego Vivarium) that looked like death to come, maybe IBD, who knows, but to sell a boa in its condition for $750. dollars is unreal Im sorry. I wonder how long its owner put it through quarantine and is honest about
this one? Think about it!!
Lisa

I wonder if this one was housed in the same horse trough as the ones he sold Bill, spam_Matt or just some poor guy looking for something cheap

hey Chris"Rainbowboaman"...I didn't know they had poor health at all....Cagle said they were"screamer and Killer tail"......they sure were!!!

Just one more thing for everyone to think about, and I don't even know any of these people, but I can tell you by what I have read, I really think it boils down too instead of worrying about what Bill Cagle purchased and then sold to Chris and what they have lost or whatever, and this other guy Matt that also brought snakes out of good faith, you people really need to be worring about ALL the others including your self's that purchased snakes from this man SAN DIEGO VIVARIUM. How many more has this man maybe sold too?? That's the reality here. Everyone need to think about it, spam_this shouldn't be a fight between Bill & Chris, instead everyone one needs to pull together and get this stuff under control.
Lisa

Lisa, Tony and the few others that can read between the lines, thank you, finally some people who can see through all the crap to the real truth.


Gary, yes, Bill Cagle was banned from this site that's why I have been posting these things for him.

Hey Brian, was this the post from the boa forum you wanted to read??? The post was deleted off kingsnake, but this was just simply copied and pasted.

A FEW MONTHS AGO, A NEW GUY STARTING POSTING ON THE KINGSNAKE CLASSIFIEDS. HE WAS GOING BY THE NAME OF SAN DIEGO VIVARIUM, AND STILL IS. HE ADVERTISED SEVERAL NICE, BREEDER SIZE BOAS. HE DIDN'T HAVE PICS IN THE BEGINNING, SO I ASKED HIM TO EMAIL ME PICS OF THE ADULT PAIR OF PERUVIANS HE HAD ADVERTISED FOR $2500. I ALSO ASKED HIM TO EMAIL ME PICS OF SEVERAL BREEDER SIZE GUYANAS AND SURINAMES HE HAD ADVERTISED AS WELL. HE EMAILED ME PICS OF THE TWO PERUVIANS AND SEVERAL GUYANAS AND SURINAMES. THE PAIR OF PERUVIANS LOOKED TO BE EXTREMELY NICE IN THE PHOTOS, SO I OFFERED DALE $2000. HE TOOK MY OFFER AND WE MADE ARRANGEMENTS TO MEET AT THE ATLANTA SHOW IN DECEMBER. I HAD NOT PLANNED ON GOING TO THE SHOW, BUT SINCE IT WAS ONLY 2.5 HRS. AWAY, AND IT WAS A LARGE PURCHASE, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO DO BUSINESS THERE AND MEET HIM IN PERSON, SINCE I HADN'T HEARD OF HIM BEFORE. A FEW WEEKS LATER, ME AND MY HELPER DROVE TO ATLANTA TO ATTEND THE SHOW. WE MET DALE PICOLA THERE, PREPARED TO PICK UP THE PERUVIANS. DALE TOLD ME THE PERUVIANS HAD BEEN LOST IN SHIPPING, YET HE HAD SEVERAL TABLES FULL OF ANIMALS. I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED, SO I TOLD HIM I WAS GOING TO WALK AROUND THE SHOW AND CHECK BACK LATER TO SEE IF THEY HAD ARRIVED, BEFORE I HEADED BACK FOR CHATTANOOGA. SO I PRECEEDED FROM TABLE TO TABLE, LOOKING AT ALL THE ANIMALS. I MADE MY FIRST PURCHASE FROM BILL AT GLADES. THEN I SPENT SOME TIME TALKING WITH BEN SIEGEL AND HIS WIFE STACEY. I PURCHASED ONE SMALL SURINAME FROM BEN. I CONTINUED AROUND FROM TABLE TO TABLE, WHEN I NOTICED THAT DALE PICOLA WAS FOLLOWING ME, TRYING TO SEE WHAT I WAS BUYING. I THOUGHT MAYBE HE HAD INFORMATION ON THE MISSING PERUVIANS. SO I ASKED HIM IF HE HAD ANY NEW INFORMATION AND HE SAID, "NO". I FOUND THIS A LITTLE STRANGE, BUT CONTINUED ON ABOUT MY BUSINESS. I STAYED AT THE SHOW FOR FOUR HOURS AND LOOKED AT EVERYTHING AT LEAST TWICE. AT THAT TIME, I NEEDED TO GO HOME, SO I WENT AND ASKED MR. PICOLA IF THE ANIMALS HAD SHOWN UP. HE SAID, "NO", BUT OFFERED ME SOME OF THE ANIMALS HE DID HAVE. THE FIRST ANIMAL HE OFFERED WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A LARGE MALE SURINAME. UPON EXAMINING THE ANIMAL, I IMMEDIATELY NOTICED THAT IT WASN'T A SURINAME, BUT A PERUVIAN. IT ALSO WAS NOT A MALE, IT WAS A FEMALE. AT THIS TIME, I FIGURED DALE WAS JUST VERY UNEDUCATED. THIS ANIMAL ALSO HAD DIME SIZED SCARS IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS. THE SCARS ARE SOLID WHITE AND WERE COMPLETELY HEALED, BUT I ASKED DALE WHAT HAD CAUSED THEM. HE SAID THEY WERE NOT SCARS AT ALL, THAT SHE WAS "PIEBALD". AT THIS TIME, I WAS REALLY STARTING TO WONDER ABOUT MR. PICLOA'S INTELLIGENCE, BUT NEVER THE LESS, I ASKED HIM HOW MUCH. HE SAID $600, SO I OFFERED HIM $300, AND HE QUICKLY SAID "OK". WE THEN MOVED ON TO AN ADULT 7FT. FEMALE SURINAME. SHE WAS A VERY AVERAGE ANIMAL, BUT AT LEAST SHE HAD NO SCARS. SO I ASKED HIM HOW MUCH FOR HER AND HE SAID AGAIN $600. I OFFERED HIM $300, AND HE QUICKLY SAID "OK" AGAIN. HE THEN SHOWED ME SEVERAL, VERY THIN, IMPORT GUYANAS, BUT I WASN'T INTERESTED IN THEM. I WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE WITH MY 2 ADULT BREEDERS FOR $600, AND DALE SAID HE HAD 3 MORE BOAS THAT WERE 5FT.SIPPERLY SURINAMES.HE PULLED A RUBBERMAID OUT FROM UNDERNEATH HIS TABLE AND SHOWED ME THE TRIO. THEY WERE A BIT THIN, BUT AGAIN, I ASKED "HOW MUCH?", AND HE SAID "$1200 FOR THE TRIO". I OFFERED HIM $600 AND ONCE AGAIN HE QUICKLY SAID "OK". I THOUGHT THIS WAS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE AND IT WAS! DALE ASSURED ME THAT AS SOON AS THE 2 ADULT PERUVIANS WERE LOCATED, THEY WERE MINE.I GOT MY 5 NEW BOAS AND WENT HOME. ME AND MY HELPER TALKED ABOUT WHAT A GREAT DEAL I HAD GOTTEN FROM DALE, ALL THE WAY HOME. I GOT THE ANIMALS HOME, PUT THEM IN THE QUARANTINE BUILDING, AND SPRAYED THEM FOR MITES, AS I DO WITH ALL MY "NEWCOMERS". UNFORTUNATELY, THEY HAD A FEW MITES, BUT I GOT THEM CLEARED UP WITHIN A FEW DAYS. ALL THE BOAS READILY FED AND APPEARED OUTWARDLY HEALTHY. I KEPT THE BOAS IN QUARANTINE FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AND SEVERAL FEEDINGS. THE 3 SUBADULTS THAT I PURCHASED WERE THIN, BUT APPEARED TO BE IN GOOD HEALTH, SO I OFFERED THEM FOR SALE AT A DISCOUNTED PRICE. A PAIR OF THEM WERE PURCHASED BY MR. CHRIS HENRICH.SEVERAL DAYS AFTER RECEIVING THE ANIMALS, CHRIS EMAILED ME AND SAID ONE OF THE BOAS APPEARED TO BE SICK AND HE WAS GOING TO TAKE IT TO THE VET. A FEW DAYS LATER, HE SAID THE BOA DIED. SO I OFFERED HIM A REFUND OR REPLACEMENT ANIMAL. HE EXPRESSED THAT HTE OTHER BOA WAS NOT LOOKING GOOD, SO I ASKED HIM WHAT HE WOULD LIKE ME TO DO, FOR HIM TO BE A SATISFIED CUSTOMER.HE SAID FOR ME TO SEND HIM 2 REPLACEMENT BOAS. I THOUGHT THIS WAS A LITTLE REDICULOUS, BUT I SENT HIM 2 REPLACEMENT ANIMALS ANYWAY. I KNOW AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS BUSINESS KNOWS I WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY IN DOING THIS. WHEN CHRIS RECEIVED THE REPLACEMENT ANIMALS, HE CALLED ME AND TOLD ME WHAT NICE ANIMLS THEY WERE AND HOW NICE A PERSON I WAS FOR DOING SO. I TOLD HIM NO PROBLEM AND APOLOGIZED AGAIN FOR THE OTHER ANIMAL. I DID ALL THIS IN GOOD FAITH WITHOUT SEEING A PICTURE, MUCH LESS HAVING THE DEAD SNAKE. SEVERAL WEEKS LETER, CHRIS CALLED ME SAYING HE HAD A VET REPORT SAYING THE ANIMAL HAD DIED FROM IBD AND WAS REQUESTING THAT I PAY HIS VET BILL, OR HE WOULD GO ON THE FORUM AND BOI AND RUIN MY BUSINESS. AT THAT TIME WITH NO DEAD ANIMAL OR VET REPORT IN HAND, I TOLD HIM TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTED TO. AS YOU ALL KNOW, HE POSTED ON THE FORUM AND NOW CONTINUES TO POST ON THE BOI REGARDING THIS MATTER. CHRIS ASKED ME WHERE I ACQUIRED THE ANIMALS FROM AND I TOLD HIM I PICKED THEM UP AT THE ATLANTA SHOW FROM DALE PICOLA (SAN DIEGO VIVARIUM). HE THEN TOOK PICS, SENT THEM TO DALE AND CALLED HIM TO CONFIRM THAT THEY WERE IN FACT THE SAME ANIMALS I HAD PURCHASED FROM HIM. DALE CONFIRMED THEY WERE THE SAME ANIMALS.CHRIS HAS CONTINUED TO ATTACK ME THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE ORDEAL, EVEN THOUGH I DID EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE IT RIGHT, SHORT OF PAYING HIS VET BILL. ON THE OTHER HAND, I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED THE PERUVIANS IN QUESTION FROM DALE, NOT THAT I WANT THEM NOW! NOR HAVE I RECEIVED AN EXPLANATION FOR THE SICK BOAS I HAD PURCHASED FROM HIM. I KNEW IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF TIME AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD BE HAVING PROBLEMS TOO. A FEW WEEKS AGO, A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE, CHUCK BARKER (CENTRAL FLORIDA REPTILE BREEDERS) CALLED AND TOLD ME THAT A FRIEND OF HIS THERE IN FLORIDA, MATT HUNTER (TRUEREDTAILS.COM)BOUGHT SOME BOAS FROM DALE PICOLA, NOT KNOWING THE DANGER. ONE OF THE ANIMALS HE PURCHASED WAS AN ADULT SURINAME. DALE ADVERTISED HER FOR $650, AND MATT OFFERED HIM $300 AND HE TOOK IT. MATT SAID ALSO THAT HE THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS UP, BUT PURCHASED THE ANIMALS ANYWAY. THANKFULLY MATT PUT THE ANIMALS IN QUARANTINE, BECAUSE WITHIN ONLY A FEW DAYS, THIS BEAUTIFUL OUTWARDLY HEALTHY LOOKING SURINAME DIED. MATT TOOK THE ANIMAL TO THE VET AND HAD A NEUCROPSY DONE. THE RESULTS CAME BACK POSITIVE FOR IBD. MATT CONTACTED DALE AND HE CLAIMED "HE PICKED UP IBD FROM A PET STORE" AND HE WOULD BE REFUNDING MATT'S MONEY ASAP. I SPOKE WITH MATT TODAY BEFORE ELABORATING ON THIS TOPIC. AND BY THE WAY, MATT HAS YET TO RECEIVE HIS MONEY. I HOPE THIS SHEDS SOME NEW LIGHT ON THE IBD SITUATION. AND HEY DALE, I STILL HAVE THE ADULT PERUVIAN. YOU KNOW, THE "PIEBALD", AND THE ADULT SURINAME, AND ONE OF THE SUBADULTS. THEY ARE IN MY QUARANTINE BUILDING AND THEY APPEAR TO BE DOING FINE.I HAVE CONTACTED DR. ELLIOT JACOBSON AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND AM MAKING ARRANGEMENTS TO SEND THEM DOWN. NOT THAT I NEED ANY MORE PROOF, JUST THOUGHT I WOULD BE ABLE TO HELP IN THE STUDY OF THIS DISEASE. I ALSO FELT THIS POST WAS NECESSARY TO INFORM ALL THE OTHER HERPERS OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO QUARANTINE YOUR ANIMALS.


I hope everyone can see from this that Bill is taking the right steps to figure out what happened with these animals, donating them for research. He has a rather large queritine room and the group he got off this knuckle head in S.D. were isolated to one side, till they were removed from the building. IBD is NOT airborn, this being the case means nothing else in that room was at risk. There was no comunal caging etc. So I hope people can see he is taking the precautions nessacery and has taken them throughout the whole event. later on, Jason