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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
11-26-2003, 01:22 AM
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#1
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Ridgeway Reptiles, Bad Guy!
I never thought I would ever have to do this, but unfortunately..I have to post my first " bad guy " experience here.
Back on August. 17th, I bought an albino southern pine from Ridgeway Reptiles ( Port Charlotte, Fl ) at the Daytona show. She was a two year old and was about 3 ft long. I had always wanted one like this. Zelph Ridgeway was the person that sold her to me. After looking her over, I bought her for $125. My good friend Shannon Brown ( High Sierra Reptiles ) bought a hypo bull, about the same age, also, at the same time from Ridgeway. We both were very happy with our new pit purchases.
Me and my wife drove home, and the pine crapped out a horrible mess in her container on the way back to Tx. I thought it looked a little different than normal pit crap, so I decided to make a mental note to keep an eye out on that.
After I got home and 2 feedings later, the worst happened with the albino southern pine puking both times. Then....the nastiest crap I had ever seen came from her. It reminded me of the slime in Ghostbusters.
I contacted Zelph Ridgeway on Friday. Sept. 19, and he was happy to discuss this with me. He suggested I give her flagyl, and then gave me a crucial piece of info that I didn't know about before.
Zelph said that she probably got sick at his place. He told me that he had 2 everglades rat snakes that were sick and he had to treat with flagyl. My albino southern pine was in the same rack system as they were, and he suggested that she got sick and had contracted her sickness from those two snakes. He said I could call him back if I need to talk again.
Well.....I made arrangements to get flagyl. By this time, Sept. 19th, the snake was supposed to be shedding and never did. She was very weak and didn't move much.
On Sept. 24, even after a dosage of flagyl, she died.
I emailed Zelph and told him what happened and sent him pictures and asked for a refund. He emailed me back saying I could have $100 credit towards a snake on his website but I had to pay for shipping. I emailed him back thanking him but wanted a refund instead. I even went as far as asking HALF of what I paid, appr. $65 back. I thought about being a nice guy and thought I would be thoughtful, even though I thought I fully deserved a full refund. Zelph emailed me back offering me a hybrid grayband and that I would have to pay for shipping. Again...I said thank you for the offer but I would rather have a refund. Here is his response:
Billy, You know there is no guarante after seven days on all reptiles,most breeders don,t even do that. It cost me 175.oo for it when it was a baby,so we both took a lost on this one! I can,t help you any more in this matter. Zelph Ridgeway
SOOOOOOOOO...........I will post my final email to him and his final response:
Zelph,
What is this guarantee you are talking about? 7 days?
There is no guarantee on your website. Also....there is no such thing as a general rule of thumb for breeders to give 7 days on a guarantee. Guarantees can vary from breeder to breeder, some may give a few days, others may give an indefinite amount of time.
With that said, at least 8 well known breeders that I know are less than impressed with how I have been treated in this deal and can't understand why someone would treat a customer this way. ALL of them have stated that they would have refunded all my money back. Let's review this whole things. Here are the facts:
1. I bought the albino southern pine from you in Daytona for $125.
2. It fed 2 times, puking both times, then continuing to puke and crap out nasty messes, indicating it was sick.
3. I contacted you Sept. 19 on the phone, where you told me you felt she got sick at your place due to the contraction of the sickness from some sick snakes that were located in the same rack system.
4. She died on Sept. 24. Flagyl did not help.
So in all...you admitted she got sick at your place, and STILL won't refund me any money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you see how unprofessional this is to run a business?
IT was very cool of you to offer me a $100 credit or a hybrid grayband....Thank you once again! I just don't have the need for those right now. So, a refund would be the only thing I can ask and hope for now.
Also....you say you paid $175 for her as a baby? What does that have to do with me???? That has absolutely nothing to do with me or me getting a refund. Bro...every breeder I have told about this can not believe that you are trying to justify not sending me a refund with comparing this to how much you paid for her.
You say you are out money? You say you bought her for $175. You sold her for $125. You are apparently out $50? Well...remember.....I am out $125! So, how can you even compare?
It is apparent with how this business is run that the customer is SOL, even if the snake is sick when purchased AND the seller admits fault for the snake to get sick by cross contamination. This is very sad my friend and I am very dissapointed. I thought you were better than this Zelph.
Here is what is going to happen:
First, you have done yourself a bad disservice by even doing this to me, the customer. Words travel far, and right now, a lot of people know about this and the Ridgeway name is not seen as a positive force in the reptile community. Shoppers in Daytona may be hesitant to buy from your booth. Things like this can hurt a business.
All I have told people are the facts. No personal attacks, lies, etc. but just what you have told me. The unprofessional action of no refund does it all.
I know breeders that know a lot of breeders, and they are pissed that someone would act this way towards customers especially someone they know. People talk.
It is a possibility that I might make a post on a well known herp site about my experience with you. The site is for good and bad transactions. It lets people know who to be careful of and who is great. This is not done to be malicious, but to just state my experience and to let people be aware. 1000's of people read this site.
I am left with no other choice. This sucks, cause I really thought you were a good guy.
If you feel the need to do the right thing, which is give me a refund, even half of what I paid, which would be appr. $65 ( cause I am being a nice guy to you ), you have two weeks to send it to this address. After that...I may post my experience with you on the internet on the site mentioned. If you don't think developing a bad reputation is worth my refund, or worth future sales, then you may have missed the point of how busineses are supposed to run.
DISCERN c/o Billy Fraser
%$%%% %%%%%%%
Dallas, Tx *****
This is the first time in all my days of herps that a seller has taken me for money. Please do the right thing Zelph.
Billy
AND here is his final response:
Billy ,Every breeder I know for past 20yrs is out for them self. You need to take the lost and move on! I have!!
There it is. My experience with Ridgeway Reptiles.
If you breed snakes and want to have a successful business, then isn't it a good business practice to refund a customer his money if the snake you sold him was sick, DIED, and you even admitted that the snake got sick in your care????????? To admit that does take some balls.....but to not give the customer his money back AFTER you acknowledged that fact...that is very low.
I feel that I was very nice to Zelph in this, perhaps too nice considering what happened. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and thought he would come through on this one. Nope.
I am very fortunate to know some of the nicest and most repectable breeders in this hobby. This is the first time I was ever taken like this.
I am not out to personally attack Zelph but I am stating my unfortunate experience with him. He usually has a table in Daytona. I just ask that you use caution if you consider doing business with Ridgeway Reptiles.
Incidentally...remember the hypo bull that I mentioned that my friend Shannon Brown bought the same time as I bought my snake? It ended up having the exact same symptoms and had to be put down.
That is all I have to say.
Thanks for reading!
Take care!
Billy Fraser
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11-26-2003, 01:58 AM
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#2
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that suck's
Billy,that suck's did he tell you the snake was sick or might be when you got it? You should alway ask about a breeders gaurentee.if he dose not have one then it's time to do bizz with somone who has a gaurentee.i hope you get your money back but dont count on it.There are a lot of breeders out there you just need to find the right one.
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11-26-2003, 03:03 AM
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#3
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Richard,
I don't think I will get my money back on this one. I just wanted to warn people, so that others may not have to go through the same ordeal.
He told me that the snake was fine, as I ask 1000 questions every time I buy a new snake. I inquired about any health problems as I always do, feeding regimen and schedule, etc. I always steer clear on snakes that show signs of sickness, no matter how bad I may want them.
Thanks for your post!
Take care!
Billy Fraser
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11-27-2003, 11:41 PM
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#4
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Billy I hear you man.
I can vouch for billy's neurotic inquiries about health and feeding regimens.
The guy was a total waste but the snakes looked o.k. to me as well.
Mine did pretty good for about six weeks then it started regurging yellow cottage cheese looking crud the stunk like nothing before.Anyways,I put mine down and didn't take any chances.
All the other snakes I purchased in daytona are doing great.
Later,
Shannon
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11-28-2003, 01:07 PM
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#5
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Sorry to hear that. I don't know about his policies but, if you contacted him about this before his 7 day guarantee was up he knew there was an ongoing problem and should have extended his guarantee or had you ship it back. He knew of the problem with his other snakes... He should definately refund. I think it was very gracious of you to offer to take half. I would think that would be more than fair. It's not a matter of just how good your business is... It's also how you handle problems.
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11-30-2003, 12:59 AM
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#6
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Yeah Raymond...I really tried to act how I would have liked to have been treated. Being fair to each other in this hobby makes for better business, better return business, and promotes the happiness that goes along with owning our wonderful herps.
It was strange for him to bring up some 7 day guarantee, as he doesn't have ANY guarantee on his site. I think he was grasping at straws in his replies.
He may have knew about the animals being sick, both mine and Shannon's, as it is funny how they both ended up. AND to top it off, the day ( which was the second day of the Daytona show )after I bought my albino southern pine, I went back to look at another hypo bull, not the hypo bull that Shannon bought, but another one they had for sale and it was very skinny. Zelph said that he had treated it with flagyl and it was fine. He wanted $125 for this snake, but in 5 minutes, went down to $75, without any haggling from me. That made me wonder.
Take care!
Billy Fraser
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12-02-2003, 01:53 PM
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#7
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I'm real sorry how this ended up for both you and Shannon. I know how excited you were when you picked up the snake at the show Billy. Zelph's last statement tells what he thinks his mission statement is: "You need to take the lost and move on! I have!!". He has $125 of your money. I really fail to see the loss on his part. Why would you take a credit with someone who is selling sick snakes? I wouldn't. I hope no others were exposed at the show from someone obviously bringing in and selling sick snakes. The people who operate the Daytona Show should be notified of your experience that's for sure. I don't even see that Zelph feels bad or sorry with his last statement. He seemed like he was being helpful until you actually wanted him to make good on the deal. Sorry again. You were more than willing to work out something for both sides (you offered to take half the responsibilty). That was more fair than I would ask or take.
Terry Parks
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12-02-2003, 10:10 PM
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#8
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What's with the 7 day guarantee?
Back on August. 17th, I bought an albino southern pine from Ridgeway Reptiles ...
I contacted Zelph Ridgeway on Friday. Sept. 19, and he was happy to discuss this with me....
Well.....I made arrangements to get flagyl. By this time, Sept. 19th, the snake was supposed to be shedding and never did. She was very weak and didn't move much.
On Sept. 24, even after a dosage of flagyl, she died.
So, by your initial post you waited over a month before your initial contact with the seller that there was a problem. You had problems with it's health right away and still waited? Perhaps if you would have contacted the seller within his "unpublished" warranty period it may have been treated earlier and perhaps lived?
Did you really wait over a month to contact seller?
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12-03-2003, 01:23 AM
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#9
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Cathy,
I did contact Ridgeway on Sept. 19 like I said. Thing is, I was very careful to not give the snake flagyl right away to begin with. Many snake keepers give there snakes a shot of flagyl the minute they see something that they think could be an illness. I don't agree with that thinking.
Also, the snake had perfect body weight to start with. Just because the snake threw up the first meal, I wasnt alarmed. I have had snakes puke over extreme temp. changes, and being moved. Southern pines can be very touchy since they are somewhat nervous snakes to begin with. I wasn't about to think the snake was sick just yet since she was a very hissy snake to begin with and when a snake isn't 100 % comfortable with its' new cage and its' surroundings, sometimes they can puke. At least in my experience. My other southern pine, a snow version, was very picky about its' cage last year after I purchased her and wouldn't feed on a consistent basis until I put her in a smaller cage where she felt more secure.
It was after her first meals that she puked, she started to poop up or puke the most foul mess I have ever seen. It was so rank, and would fill the room with its' odor. It looked just like mucous and snot from us. This is when I realized that she was truly sick.
It was then that I let her rest and for the next few weeks, I left her alone completely with the proper temps, etc. During her time when she was in shed, the rancid poop/puke would continue.
Her body weight had lost some, but still she was over 3 feet and judging by her length and girth, her dying after a month of me having her only proved more that she was very sick. I have had snakes fast for longer than that and they were smaller.
She was about the size of Shannon's hypo bull that he got from Ridgeway as well. He reported to me that the bull didn't lose that much weight, but the gross puked messes were parallel with my snake's messes.
Both my snake and Shannon's snake's sicknesses, with the characteristics of each, are completely the same. No question about that.
It is pretty visible from the evidence I have posted that Ridgeway sold me and Shannon sick animals. Zelph has literally made himself look foolish by his emails back to me. Also..him telling me in our phone conversation that the snake got sick while at his place says a lot against himself. Yet he wouldn't give me any kind of refund.
This is the way it happened, plain and simple.
Take care!
Billy Fraser
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12-06-2003, 12:15 AM
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#10
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Any chance we're gonna get a reply from Ridgeway on this one??
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